I too love the Joan and Roger affair. It is totally vibrant, yet you know for her it's such a bad decision. I hope they have one more fling before she realizes the error of her ways. Something tells me, however, that the heart attack might have cooled her heels permanently...

@CLAYTON, yeah before the days of Viagra! Darn! They are pretty cute together. But you're right, I doubt if "Red" wants to be caught "in flagrante" with Roger, and have her extracurricular activities be fodder for the water cooler.

Roger and Joan will never be a permanent item. He will never leave Mona and Joan knows it. I think Joan will make a move on the "Duck". Duck will not go for the advances and Joan will consider him a quest. She will turn up the heat, and it should get things going. Did everyone remember the cold moment when Don and the boys were celebrating getting the Kodak account with a drink? They were all drinking and handed Duck a drink. He handed it back to Don and said, "no thanks". Talk about a cold artic freeze slap in the face by the Duck!! The silence alone sent quite a harsh message. Duck is not boozing it up in the office - Bert is asking Don not to smoke in his office - now Joan's advances don't get a second look by Duck. See where I'm going with his MM fans? It could get interesting with this new Duck man, don't you think?

DUCK: I thought when Duck handed back the drink it was because somewhere in that episode he kind of hinted he was "let go" for drinking or being unprofessional. Maybe I'm imagining it - that drinking cost him his job or his marriage or both. (was he married?) Well, he definitely conveyed he was a no-nonsense, no b.s. kind of guy. Even Bert Cooper kind of raised his eyebrow at something Duck said when they were introduced, I thought. Am I way off base on this?

Also, thought Duck 's behavior foreshadows the clamping down on drinking, smoking, rough-housing, unprofessional behavior that was status quo in business then.

I didn't like the guy. Personally, he looked to be a real hardcase, and I immediately thought watch out Don, Pete, Bert and all the rest. There's a shark in the water!

interesting comments, all...but, I kinda got the impression that "Duck" was brought in after Roger's heart attack to kind of temp until Roger's health situation was known. Maybe they'll keep him, though, and he and Rog can be rivals for Joan! She'd love that!

Actually I see Duck and Sal together! Don't ask me why, but I do.

Additionally, I think Joan is not going to be the "Goodtime Girl" that she was in 1960. She's getting older, she's pretty much at the top of her game in the company, and she hasn't landed husband material. She's just barely too old for what changes happen in the mid-60's, and really is of a different generation (born in the mid '30s I think), so even though she was more "modern" with her sex life (promiscuous), she's still of the "find a husband" generation. I think she'll be giving Roger the brush-off, sadly, and may be straightening up her behavior to snag a husband. She's got to be close to 30 (maybe 28?) by 1962. Maybe she'll give that guy in the office she slept with before another look (the one she said had a big mouth - after all, he's getting older too and is unattached). It wasn't any easier for men to be single for no good reason in that era either.

I see Joan going after Duck. He is divorced and Joan would be just the thing he needs to get over his wife. If you look at how quickly men get remarried after their divorce, it is scary. I know many men that barely have time for the ink to dry on their divorce papers to signing a new marriage license with another woman. They run from one court house to the next. Men back then did not like being single like they do today. If they were single in the 60's many people thought they were gay. I can't see Joan and Paul getting together. However, I was curious to know what Paul said about Joan that gave him the "you've got a big mouth" title. I was rather disappointed with Joan when she and her friend went trolling for salesmen...old salesmen at that!! I think Joan would be happy with a sugar daddy and loves her life as a working girl. If she marries, it will only cause her to stay at home with kids and laundry. It is much more exciting as the Queen Bee at SC!!

You know, JAMM54 and luvmadmen, I think you both have very possible scenarios there,but, I kinda agree that Joan is a born "kept woman" though...ready to lay up (sounds trashy, but let's face it...Joan's a ho...a hot sexy ho--but still a ho!)with whoever has the healthiest heart and the most $$ at any given time. Duck may well be the ticket for her next (post-Roger) sugar daddy. I think in Season 2 she will be conflicted as to whether to go with Duck or to indeed try the marriage/kids route before she's too old.

@LUVMADMEN, the incident where Joan tells Paul he has a big mouth was after the all night office party (Nixon vs Kennedy episode?). They were all drinking, doing the mini-play, checking the panties. The party had wound down, Paul asked her to dance, and then asked her why she never gave him a tumble again (fill in the blanks - "after that one time"). Joan replied "because you have a big mouth" or he finished her sentence. Apparently their one tryst was broadcast around the office by him.

Part of the reason I think Joan is going to tone down her brassiness is from the few preview publicity stills I've seen of the cast for Season 2. Joan's hairstyle is a little darker and different, make-up and lipstick are darker, the dress she wore in the publicity still was a darker shade of red (her favorite color it seems), and the change in the decolletage of her dress. She "looked" more sophisticated and mature, and the colors were subdued. In other words, "serious".

In fact, from the publicity photos, all the characters are dressing in darker tones, and the design lines for the women look older, more sophisticated. Though I notice for Betty, she's going from warm, sunny pastels to neutrals. You'll have to forgive me for noticing this crap because I have a degree in drama. Mandatory to take costume design, so the clothes (color, design, etc) reflect not only the era, but what's going on with the character inside and out.

SCFAN, you're probably very right about Joan. She's been the hardest for me to "read". She could either be the whore with a heart of gold or just a plain gold digger/climber looking for her husband niche. Other than tears for Roger (telegram scene, his office return), she's pretty hard. Not exactly maternal or nurturing.

JOAN REDEUX: also, if Joan is only going to go for the wealthy and healthy (re: successful older executive), she's going to have to not look like she's ready to burst out of her dress. Or dress like she spends her evenings in cocktail lounges trolling for guys. The wife of an executive would be expected to look a little more classy, and not brazenly "sexual" like she's going to an audition for "Some Like It Hot".

Though, as an aside, I LOVE how they dress Joan, and show off her voluptuous figure. It's refreshing to see a "real" woman's figure on TV! I do think she's very attractive, but other than Roger, man she does pick rather "long in the tooth" men.

I've always heard that men not only enjoyed being with sexually aggressive women, but they also married them. Once they married them, the men would work on polishing them up to their standards. Society can argue that good girls get married and bad girls don't. However, those prim and proper women were a just a quest for men to conquer. They would hold out for marriage and then be disappointed that the woman wasn't a tiger in the bedroom every night. Women like Joan knew that being experienced in sex would be just the ticket she needs to keep the man coming back for more. Right, Roger?

Well, not to elaborate on the details, I've found most men to be intimimated when the woman was sexually aggressive. So, all depends on who you're with I guess.

Bummer jamm54, maybe your details would make a good MM episode? Joans sexuality is definately a turn on for Roger (and others - remember the boys standing up and saluting Joan's display of her grand caboose? LOL). It seems Roger should be the most intimidated of all of them, but he really loves Joan's sexuality displays in the office. I loved how he was left speechless during the four men salute. Another display of outstanding MM writing!!

How is this for shocking? I think the Mad Men creators want to push the limits and I think they are going to set Joan up with her roommate/girlfriend. Joan is very adventurous with her sexuality and I think that is why they are building the seeds for her and her roommate. Also I think she went with the old men to try to prove to her roommate and herself that she is still interested in men and to hurt her roommate for making her questions herself. It will be interesting to see where her character's arc goes but that is the thing that I love about Mad Men you never know when they are going to turn a corner and all you can do is float along with the show.

Marsha, Marsha, Marsha...Joan and her roommate getting together is a great one!! Yeah, I can see MM writers setting us up for this one. However, maybe they will introduce the "three-some" instead of the lesbian route. You know Joan, her roommate and Roger? Here's one..they get together and Roger has a heart attack. Joan has to explain to Mona what the three of them were doing in bed together!! Some good talk will be happening around the water cooler either way. You're right that whole thing about Joan hooking up with the old salesmen is sooooo not Joan!!

@marsha & luvmadmen: That probably wouldn't be so far off base. At first, was going to say Roger wouldn't, but then he had the "aluminum siding twins" (though he only dealt with one).

I still see Joan as "getting down to business" and snagging a potential future husband. Age-wise, she's very close to being categorized as a "floozy" or "over the hill" which puts her chances at being seriously considered wife material very low. Just barely there to "Miss Lonely Hearts" like in Rear Window with seconal and booze to follow suit.

As an aside, the writers could use my one line to a date (it was our first). We were sitting in a booth at a restaurant having drinks, and I leaned across the table (to kiss) and said "could I have a preview of coming attractions?".

Greetings MM Fans! The Marathon Whew! How much fun was that. Believe me if you get the DVD set you will be able to get commentary from Matt Weiner and some of the cast members on certain scenes and how they were shot. There were things said and done that I didn't get from seeing the show on T-V. No commercials either. Nice!
When Roger stated that he'd been acting like a sailor on leave for the last 20 years and the look on Joan's face in the elvator when Bert Cooper told her not to waste her youth on age.Then he added if you know what I mean. Ole Bert knows what's going on. I think things will be cooled down quite a bit with Rog & Joan. I agree with alot of you that Joan is the Hottie of the moment. Even she said to Roger the night he gave her the bird. The new model will be coming out soon and you won't want the 60's model anymore.I don't think she is the Mommy stay at home with the kids and PTA meeetings type of person. On the other hand I think she may be concerned that she is getting older and that special guy hasn't come around yet. Don going after Peggy No way!! That is too bad about Rachel disappearing offf the show. Taht leaves me hanging. I was all set to see Rachel come backl form her trip with a baby in her arms. I misjudged that one. Pete turning into a Hippie tha's a Hell no one. He didn't even like seeing Peggy doing the new dance craze "The Twist" I agree with
lets see what Duck adds to the soup. Ciao Ciao

Joan will tryst with Roger again and he will be impotent. In his humiliation he will pretend it's her fault. Bitter, he may begin to downgrade her at work to punish her for being unable to resurrect his dead member. In a weak moment, fed up with men, she will permit her roommate to make a physical advance. Joan is looking for a daddy figure, that's why she goes for older men. She was hurt when all Roger could say "from the bottom of his heart" when he came back after the heart attack, was she was the best piece of ass he'd ever had. She does want to be loved, not just lusted after.

Joan has an inkling that Salvatore's not straight, from the way he kissed her during the play at the election night office party.

I don't like Duck either, and the reason he passed on the drink was he's a recovering alcoholic in AA, but he'll probably say he has a bad liver and can't drink for medical reasons. He may be a temporary character.

AGE: thought I wrote this somewhere else on the blog, but can't find it. From another website interview with Joan & Peggy, and a different interview with Don, these are the ages of everyone in 1962 (also based from comments by characters in Season 1 in 1960):

DON 36
BETTY 30
PEGGY 22
JOAN 32
PETE 30

Can't place Rogers age or Bert's either. I would guess that Bert has to be 65-70, and Roger around 45-50 (born about 5-10 years before Don?).

Oops, sorry, Pete would be 28. Don asked him how old he was (after Pete harrassed Peggy on her first day), and he replied 26.

Yeah, bocaratonfan, you picked up on Joan's funny little look when Sal kissed her, too? I thought the same thing, she realized he didn't know how to kiss (or had never kissed a woman at least).

I was shocked by Roger's "best piece of ass" remark too, though Joan did a good job of hiding her feelings. I expected him to say something very tender, not crass and lewd, and I think she did, too. Because, let's face it, even if you're a "bad" girl puttin' out, you're really offering up sex for some love (at least in that era and a little beyond). Though I think both sexes today can be more pragmatic, and just accept sex for sex's sake.

Or does the wheel of naivete still spin on (at least when you're young and inexperienced)?

jamm54, I agree about the character ages, and also, you have a sharp eye like me. When they were getting ready to start enacting the play, Sal looked very uncomfortable and said he didn't want to play the main character - who has to kiss Joan. As for the kiss, you can't fool an experienced gal like Joan, an expert in male desire. After the kiss, she's puzzled as to whether he just lacks desire for her personally or
is he just sexually inexperienced, despite the sophisticated exterior and reputation? Then it dawns on her that perhaps he dislikes kissing a woman.
As for Joan as "bad girl", I remember what an old aunt of mine said - "everyone wants to love and be loved" - and despite the modern front of "pragmatic sex", I still think they are looking for love, or at least some kind of close relationship. However, the 1960 men seem so selfish and boorish, not at all sexy in the way they pursue women. Roger comes across as a selfish egomaniac concerned only with his own pleasure, despite his praise of Joan's body and performance. She is an object.

Actually, although I like her, she strikes me as a pathetic character.

I feel that Joan, like Betty, is actually deeply sad.

Unlike Betty, who at least acknowledges the feelings of loneliness and sadness she feels to a psychiatrist and a little kid, Joan doesn't.

Instead, Joan puts on the happy, sexy girl front and keeps on plugging along. I think Joan thinks she's got it all "figured out" about men and life (just not what she's doing to herself). I mean, what the heck does Joan FEEL? You can screw a ton of guys, and still end up crying from total feelings of emptiness because you're never sharing your real feelings. Sexy bedroom banter/repartee is enjoyable, but not necessarily about emotional intimacy.

And even though Peggy has taken it on the chin really hard a few times, she's not sad. Again another woman who suppresses her emotions to survive. Peggy takes the good old classic avoidance route by being a workaholic to avoid creating a personal life. What's happened to Peggy is sad and how she has to cope with it is sad, but she herself isn't sad in my mind. Peggy is a fighter.

yes, peggy wants to "better herself".

Are you sure about Betty's age - 30 years old? I thought she said she did modeling right out of High School and she met Don at a modeling shoot. I thought Betty was late 20's. Sally the daughter looks about 8 at the oldest. Even if Betty was 20 when she got married, she would be 28. Back in the 60's you didn't wait to have kids. Many women got pregnant on their honeymoons. If she got married at 18 and got pregnant right away she would be 26-28 at the oldest. Even if she waited two years for kids, she would be 28. I get this feeling that Betty got pregnant right away - probably before the age of 20. That's where I get her "little girl" mannerism. For anyone who say Coal Miners Daughter and how Loretta Lynn had a nervous breakdown from feeling she went from being a child to having a child. She never had the chance to grow up and children forced her to grow up too fast. I see the same connection with Betty. Betty is handling it as best she can, but without her Mother around, she has no guidence. She is ready to have a breakdown as she has no one to console about the affairs and raising children. Her therapist is definately not offering her any advise!

@luvmadmen, in Season 1 someone mentioned Betty's age (herself or someone else), and she said 28. It might have been the psychiatrist? And Rachael said in another scene that she was 28 - I think.

Don't you feel some of Betty's sadness is because she's grieving for her mother? She has a brother (went there for Thanksgiving), but it didn't sound like they were close. In essence, with her mother gone, HER family seemed to disintegrate. And Don's frequent absence really leaves her on her own. She kind of lost her mother (death) and father (new girlfriend) all at once, and doesn't Betty impress you as a Daddy's girl? She had problems with her mother (psychiatrist session, her own comments to Don) that she didn't get to resolve, and now her Dad has abandoned her for a girlfriend, and Don seems more and more remote.

@scfan, I did laugh at your comments that Joan is a "ho" and a "hot, sexy ho" a while back. Yeah, I guess she is, and boy would she would be crucified at a hen party of "decent girls".

You are so right, JAMM54! They would crucify her because she was doing all the stuff they wanted to do but couldn't---and still be called "decent"! What a hippocritical (sp?) time that all was. LOL

Better believe it, scfan! And, later, for the "free love", sexual freedom crap merging into the '70s, the "double standard" was very much alive and well. And if you were a woman, you still paid a heavy price for being sexually active (judgment, disease, pregnancy) from both sexes. I don't know if there's such heavy public moral judgment today toward women being sexually active.

Betty is 28. She tells this to Glenn the little boy when she is babysitting him.

We know she had to meet Don at LEAST 6 years ago because he has been at SC that long and because she said she was modeling and he worked at a Fur Company and sent her the fur to get her to go out with him.

I think her little girl mannerisms have something to do with the way her parents raised her and she was too kind hearted to rebel.

I think Betty's rebellion may soon bubble over.

i.e. the shooting the birds with the cigarette in her mouth in her nightie.... if that doesn't say losing it.... don't know what does !

I absolutely loved that scene of Betty standing out in the yard, dressed in her sweet nightgown, a cigg hanging from her lips and cocking that bb gun...awesome, awesome stuff. The song picked to play during that scene was perfect.