Yeah, but is that stuff really true? Does it work in real life? Does anyone live that way? (Is that what they call Logical Positivism?)

Bert Cooper obviously believes in Ayn Rand's philosophies because he keeps touting it to his employees (Don, Pete) to read. It's definitely a sign from the series that Don Draper may embody some of the characteristics of an Ayn Rand hero (Howard Roark - The Fountainhead?). Don follows his own ideas about life, work, marriage, and sex regardless of how his behavior may hurt or damage others (i.e. Adam, Betty). Don's concern is his own life, code, goals, needs and desires. Whether Don's behavior is deemed appropriate by others or fits in with their needs isn't of importance to him, at least for now. He isn't governed at all by what others think (at least that's what he tells himself). There is a flaw there, though; if Don didn't care, why deny the existence of his past or anything belonging to that?

Don does care...just too late. He is an opportunist who took the opportunity to change his identity when it presented itself...it's just that he acted before he thought and now is thinking constantly!

@scfan, or more like Don's brought so many other people into his life, that the obligations and commitments are closing in on him. When other people come into the picture (i.e. wife, kids, mistresses, bosses, employees), you are forced to either accommodate them because their needs/demands have to be acknowledged/met or drop them, to keep moving forward. Otherwise, anytime they impeded on the "forward" motion of your life, you'd be dropping them like an old suit of clothes. It isn't so easy to do that when you are so deeply entangled - it's called emotional commitments. I don't think Don "gets" that yet about life.

And more to the point, no, I don't think anyone could live that way. It would end up being the coldest kind of self-interest, egotism, narcissim and a very lonely life. Our lives/actions/feelings touch others, and to simply deny that we don't have an impact on another's life or they on ours, as part of our road to happiness, would be a life lived in a vacuum without any of the "humanity" that makes it exhilirating, ugly, beautiful and so difficult, but so treasured. At the end of our lives, doesn't everyone truly at death, want to feel that they loved and were loved?

Oops, sorry it's "narcissism" in my last post. Have to keep up on my spelling!

I loved Bert Cooper's comment to Don.... I don't remember the exact text.... but something like 'Ayn would drink you up'.

To me, Don is precisely Ayn Rand's man. It seems he could detach from anyone or anything without too much pain.

It sure seems like it, doesn't it? I think "The Wheel" episode was so outstanding because it finally hit Don that he had a "history" with good memories (all the pictures of Betty, kids, wedding, holidays), but he could only "see" or "want that" through the venue of an advertising campaign. Which makes it both sad and ironic. Don can only relate to wanting happiness when it's sold to him through an advertisement.

Amen! The guy believes his own hype!

WLW, not sure but I believe Bert's comment to Don was that Ayn was "salivating" or something to that effect! Love that Bert!

Yes Bert, WLW, definitely deserves more backstory and an episode. He is quite the eccentric. Ayn Rand would be drooling over Don, that's for sure!

I posted somewhere earlier that I thought the story seems to parallel that of Howard Roark - Rand's hero from the Fountainhead.

Who is Toohey in all this ?

I thought Pete was Peter Keating- but now I think he may be Toohey in all this (although too obvious- if someone REALLY wants to undo Draper - they will be less obvious than Pete imho

"Toohey in fact very much wants Roark's recognition, claiming in effect that his percepti0on of the significance of Roark's work and than destroying it makes him the equal of its creator—a claim which "Roark rebuffs in their only face-to-face encounter in the entire book: "Why don't you tell me what you think of me, Mr. Roark?" Roark replies, "But I don't think of you." (Copied from Wikpedia)

kdb100273: Even though Toohey and Roark are peers (architects), I don't see Pete as Don's peer, and I don't think Don does either.

I see Pete as being more like Wynard (loves/admires Roark and wants Roark's love/admiration in return and to dominate Roark).

Pete/Wynard wants to see himself as both superior to Don/Roark, but suffers the dichotomy of admiration and loathing for Don/Roark. Don't know that Pete actually wants Don's love as much as approval/acknowledgement of his worth - which may be the same thing as love/admiration.

Your other posting was on "Mad Men Season Two Predictions".

Thanks kdb100273 for bringing up the Ayn Rand subject - it's been really interesting! Have enjoyed the mental exercise immensely!

Yeah, this is very interesting. Going back to the idea that Don is feeling closed in with family and committments, brings me back to the Hobo code episode. Remember the Hobo telling Don he had a family, mortgage, etc and that he never slept at night. He decided to leave his family and become a Hobo with only the clothes on his back. I think Don admired that Hobo for going against society and their norms. When Don showed up at Rachel's wanting to leave everything and run off with Rachel, it was the Hobo's story that drove him to do that. Don's fear of having to stay above the young executives clawing their way to the top is starting to get to him. In the previews it shows Peggy telling Don, "sex sells". Don replies, "says who?". Don has the experience, but is losing his grip on the changing society. He wants his life to stay the same, but change is happening all around him. It is definately the mid-life crisis. It hit at age 35 back in 1960, compared to age 45 in 2008. Maybe we will see Don buying a new Chevy Corvette?

luvmadmen, I think Don's going to be having intimations of heart trouble (a Season 2 preview commercial keeps showing Don at the doctor's office being lectured about alcohol and cigarettes). After all, Don's emotions are so corseted up, he's not exactly open to entertaining anyone else's ideas/philosophy that don't fall in with his own.

There was a reason Don would only work as a partner without a contract - he always wants to leave his options open to run.

You got it jamm54, leaving his options open to run....just like the Hobo!

Yeah, Don "Hobo" Draper!

You've got it, luvmadmen, about Don in the upcoming season. He is going to be clashing with the changes, youth/sex focus. Remember how angry he was with Pete's Bethlehem Steel idea (besides jumping over his head with a client)?

In terms of the references to Ayn Rand's Fountainhead, Don seems very similar to Howard Roark. He is self interested and competent and has litttle interest in those less able. Peter is Keating. If there is a Toohey, he is not yet revealed. (Jamm54- The underlying philosophy is called objectivism, and it does, indeed, profess that selfishness is beneficial. The assumption is that everyone else is also working to better their own situation, and that contributes to the betterment of man, etc. Sorry objectivists for the cliff note version.

Thanks rickk, I didn't know what Ayn Rand called her philosophy. It is interesting, but it lacks "compassion" and a certain kind of warmth. Not everyone has that kind of strength to be a Howard Roark, that's for sure. That's why I love Don so much, but I think he is a "warmer" shade of Roark, despite his cold rejection of Adam. The regret Don has afterward makes him human.

draper is a closer analogue to atlas shrugged's hank rearden than roark. the characters of the fountainhead are so unyieldingly symbolic, especially roark, whereas in atlas rearden succumbs to more human flaws, such as choosing an ill-fit wife (lillian) that leads him to pursue a more fulfilling relationship with business tycoon dagny taggart, not unlike draper's affairs with menken and midge. unlike roark, (who would have never cancelled the mohawk account), rearden frequently makes compromises that give his character a draper-like depth.

i think thus far the greatest connection between rand and MM, as well as explication of draper's psyche resides in the subplot of draper-betty-powerful woman triad. both rearden and draper have married women they do not connect with in a deeper capacity, women who are either unable to or unwilling to engage their husbands or appreciate them "for their art;" both women see their husbands as material and social providers, but take no interest in the actual work that either men do, or acknowledge the great competency and talent their husbands have. both women frequently put their husbands on guilt trips that either directly or indirectly target their husband's talent and devotion to work. i have a strong feeling that when betty eventually finds out that draper not only has affairs, but sees the type of women draper cheats on her with, she will be far angrier than if those women were stereotypical floozies (which is whom i suspect carlton, as many other congruous men, choose for their dalliances). i think betty would be able to take the affairs better if the women draper chose were not her "betters," which is going to throw an even deeper wrench into the plot when she inevitably finds out. the women draper chooses (midge and menken) possess an innate ability to comprehend what draper is about, are aware of his skill and talent, and like him more because of it, not b/c of what it brings in terms of social standing or material.

This is an interesting thread. I just don't know if Don makes the Rand HK hero cut. Roark and Rearden both knew what they wanted to do from early on. Roark catching rivets as a boy, etc.

Don Draper seems more like a fugitive than a pillar of reasoned choice the HK's represent. The HK's don't panic, don't seem to loathe the work they do the way Don does.

Rachel yes, but Midge is no Dominque or Dagney.

And Peter is not Ellsworth Tuey. He's seeing things often correctly, he's seeing society, not subverting society. Peter's point about Kennedy--"You know who else didn't wear a hat--Elvis," is exactly correct as warning about JFK's appeal. He also embraced the research in the series first episode that led to the creation of the wildly successful Marlboro Man. Research tossed aside by Don.

But if you want to take this all to it's wildest extreme, what was the name of the tabloid newspaper publisher with the glass penthouse? I guess in the MM world, he'd be Roger, eh?

But who is John Galt? The flashback to Don's past in "The Gold Violin" reminds me that there was another, earlier, more provocative flashback in season one's epsiode 8, "The Hobo Code", with a potentially explosive secret theme, especially when you consider that many of Mad Men's episode titles have double meanings.

There was a hobo in the flashback, the hobo who signaled to other itinerants with his markings on the Whitman fence that "a dishonest man lives here" (what transpired between him and Dick/Don's father for him to say this?). But there was also a hidden hobo in the episode, and that was the significant character Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged, the book pressed on Don by his boss Bert Cooper. In Atlas Shrugged, the heroine, while riding the rails, encounters the unnamed hobo, who assures her that "John Galt", the mysterious, mythical capitalist genius she's heard about all her life does, indeed, exist.

Is there a John Galt character in Mad Men, then? Who might he (or she) be?

By the way, I read that the final episode of season two going to be called "Meditations in an Emergency", after the long poem by Frank O'Hara mentioned earlier in the season. Another thematic text! I wonder if we'll finally discover who Don sent his copy to.

But who is John Galt? The flashback to Don's past in "The Gold Violin" reminds me that there was another, earlier, more provocative flashback in season one's epsiode 8, "The Hobo Code", with a potentially explosive secret theme, especially when you consider that many of Mad Men's episode titles have double meanings.

There was a hobo in the flashback, the hobo who signaled to other itinerants with his markings on the Whitman fence that "a dishonest man lives here" (what transpired between him and Dick/Don's father for him to say this?). But there was also a hidden hobo in the episode, and that was the significant character Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged, the book pressed on Don by his boss Bert Cooper. In Atlas Shrugged, the heroine, while riding the rails, encounters the unnamed hobo, who assures her that "John Galt", the mysterious, mythical capitalist genius she's heard about all her life does, indeed, exist.

Is there a John Galt character in Mad Men, then? Who might he (or she) be?

By the way, I read that the final episode of season two going to be called "Meditations in an Emergency", after the long poem by Frank O'Hara mentioned earlier in the season. Another thematic text! I wonder if we'll finally discover who Don sent his copy to.

But who is John Galt? The flashback to Don's past in "The Gold Violin" reminds me that there was another, earlier, more provocative flashback in season one's epsiode 8, "The Hobo Code", with a potentially explosive secret theme, especially when you consider that many of Mad Men's episode titles have double meanings.

There was a hobo in the flashback, the hobo who signaled to other itinerants with his markings on the Whitman fence that "a dishonest man lives here" (what transpired between him and Dick/Don's father for him to say this?). But there was also a hidden hobo in the episode, and that was the significant character Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged, the book pressed on Don by his boss Bert Cooper. In Atlas Shrugged, the heroine, while riding the rails, encounters the unnamed hobo, who assures her that "John Galt", the mysterious, mythical capitalist genius she's heard about all her life does, indeed, exist.

Is there a John Galt character in Mad Men, then? Who might he (or she) be?

By the way, I read that the final episode of season two going to be called "Meditations in an Emergency", after the long poem by Frank O'Hara mentioned earlier in the season. Another thematic text! I wonder if we'll finally discover who Don sent his copy to.

Comparing Don Draper to an Ayn Rand hero or claiming that Ayn Rand would like him reveals a very superficial understanding of Objectivism (her philosophy).

Yes, the core of objectivist ethics is egoism, but specifically rational egoism (which she would argue is the only true egoism). This does not preclude one from having compassion for others, it just essentially means that one does not hold self-sacrifice for others as the standard of morality. It also does not necessarily preclude generous acts such as charity or gift-giving, it just means that one does not consider any of these being a moral duty or obligation, that either action is simply one of good will (and not the primary focus of one's life).

Although he may appear to be one of the least "emotional," Draper isn't quite the beacon of rationality. He often follows whim or impulse over what would be in his long term best interest. He is also severely lacking in other qualities that would be encompassed by a rational egoist, such as integrity and honesty.

It sounds as if you never got the point of Ayn's writing. Think of the characters Dominique, or Dagny. What kind of men did they aspire to, AND WHY?