Did you guys see this? http://www.unboundedition.com/content/view/1786/50/

I got the whole severity of marriage idea behind the Marriage of Figaro episode, and I was rolling with it, until Don disappeared with the cake, that did not 'feel' right. I understand that he is not all that into his wife, the whole weird way he 'keeps' her (the way women were kept back then) idealized, but in a plastic way and condescending way, cool. But, his daughter, I can not see him doing that to his daughter. That came off as bad soap.

So did Rachel Menken's effrontery at finding Don to be married. I know that it is the early 60s, but as a business person, she would have already dealt with salesmen for vendors (some of the slimiest people alive). There was a small (but not enough) save with the 'running a life along side yours' line.

I do not know how long this series is expected to run (I do hope it is a long time, it is a very 'cool' show), but in this particular episode, I felt like too much was being jammed into the show. I had all these new people to keep up with and I was not sure where the were (the people kissing, sneaking or happily married?)

I think I get how you want to take this idealized marriage that was presented to America at that time (by ads no less) and show that it there was a lot of crap festering beneath the shiny plastic cover.

Besides, with Don, we know that there is a pea beneath the mattress of his life, but I have no clue what it is and that is starting to get on my nerves. I mean here he is Darrin f'n Stevens, with a bigger house on a better Morning Glory CIrcle, prettier wife the whole nine and he has all this angst for what? No one at the job can touch him, he has a harem on the side, so you think he would make a happier drunk. So there are small cracks in his facade, but this is not what bothers him, he is fully aware that it is all a facade and he really should be having more fun with it. He acts like people are going to find out his mother is black or something (not that it is a bad thing, my mother is black, and my father is too, but back then passing could lead to issues). So what is bothering this man? You all need to give us a little more to work with here.

It was obvious that the secret Don Draper is hiding, is he is Jewish. The passenger on the train recognizes him as Richard Whitman and introduces himself with a Jewish name. In the 60's that's a big secret to hide. Also, in the second episode he compared himself to Moses

Well, not as bad as his mother being black (I guess) but it was a gentleman's agreement at the time. I guess that is his pull to the Menken character, in that she does not have to hide that she is Jewish. Well that would explain his pea. I do know that was a big deal at the time, but as a black person, it looks kinda funny to me.

who sings the theme of the show?! .... "I told you..."

It's beautiful... reminds of Billie Holiday.

As a Jewish woman who grew up in that era (graduated high school in '53) and now living in Boca Raton, I can tell you one thing - there were NO Jews in Boca Raton then!! So the comment about long noses missed its' mark - Miami Beach would have been on target. The wives vs. husbands thing touches some chords, however, as does the smoking and the drinking, the attitude about "the girls in the office".

'Dick Whitman' Now that is funny. So still why all the angst? I could see him sweating the load earlier in his life, but not so much now. He is in. He is depended on, he is a WASP.

I hope this is not where it gets to be bad soap and Pete Campbell finds out, but that could be good soap if his whole world crashes down around him and we get to watch. At least it would be more fun than just watching him squirm in that suit(e) of angst.

And when are they going to come up with a decent ad campaign, that 'Its Toasted' thing was weak. They have a chance with the Secor, but I can't really see nothing powerful coming out of that (haha). I do not see anything big out of Menkens Stores (store ads are always conservative), but they kept talking about the Volkswagon ad. So when is Sterling-Cooper going to have a campaign that is worthy of them being on Madison Avenue for?

I agree with a lot of the above comments, and feel like a LOT has been tossed our way in the last two episodes, almost too much to fathom.One interesting note about Don disappearing and coming back with the dog for his kid,Rachel's comment about "What more could a 9 year old ask for- protection and someone to talk to" maybe spurred him to buy the animal, as he is away from home so much and so was Rachel's dad.That he chose to do it then, only makes him seem more impulsive.And the way the little girl wipes off his kiss and goes back to hugging the dog is classic.Even with all these loose ends and red herrings tossed out, it STILL should be an interesting next few weeks, and I DEFINITELY do not want it to turn into "bad soap".I would say the writers are due for an 'explanation" episode soon, if not next, to give us more insights into what makes the characters tick.One thing, there is a definite thread to each show, but little carryover from one to another, unless we are expected to do that ourselves.I'll stay aboard for the ride a little longer.Cheers, MM:)

Who's Dick Whitman? Is Don an army deserter? His he married to some one in Alabama under his real name?

By the way Dr. Richard Whitman, a real person, is an internationally known and respected Jewish academic, an ichthyologist.

If you remember episode 1 showed the "Purple Heart" in a box in his desk(I thought the box said Don Draper-which is kind of odd, on my Dad's 3 purple heart boxes-NONE of them had his name on them) so I do not think he is a deserter, but may have had problems and been discharged possibly dishonorably? It is entirely possible he changed his name for whatever reasons, and perhaps they are saving all that for the future.The possibility of him being Jewish would explain some of his "secrets" but there has to be more!And yes, Salvatore does appear to be gay,and we will see how that is depicted in later shows.It will be interesting to see if any posters ideas from this site actually show up along the way.(Stranger things have happened).Looking forward to next Thursday! Cheers, MM:)

To start off ... this is one of the Best shows on TV right now. It is perfectly thought out down to the T. I mean come on.. did you catch the pregnant wife smoking and drinking on the last epispode?

I do agree that it is all catching up to Don Draper. His past is coming back to haunt him. What seems like a perfect life with his princess wife, huge house with the red door and executive job. All is not peferct behind closed doors.

You know that even if his wife does find out he has been cheating on her she will NOT leave him. God forbid her gossipy friends find out!! What will they think of her then? Oh what will she do for money?? the kids?? The extravagant life she is used to? Don.... he'll be ok, cause all the other married men are doing it!

I am a big fan of this show and hope that it gets the fine reviews that it deserves!!!

To start off ... this is one of the Best shows on TV right now. It is perfectly thought out down to the T. I mean come on.. did you catch the pregnant wife smoking and drinking on the last epispode?

I do agree that it is all catching up to Don Draper. His past is coming back to haunt him. What seems like a perfect life with his princess wife, huge house with the red door and executive job. All is not peferct behind closed doors.

You know that even if his wife does find out he has been cheating on her she will NOT leave him. God forbid her gossipy friends find out!! What will they think of her then? Oh what will she do for money?? the kids?? The extravagant life she is used to? Don.... he'll be ok, cause all the other married men are doing it!

I am a big fan of this show and hope that it gets the fine reviews that it deserves!!!

As a Chinese-American, I was offended by the "Chinaman" scenes in the latest episode. They had no redeeming value, were offensive, and represent a continuing and disturbing trend routinely seen and heard in the media. I understand that his colleagues wanted to play a practical joke on Pete Campbell, but why at the expense of an "oriental family". Just to get a laugh because he called someone a "Chinaman"? It appears that you can openly disparage and make fun of the Chinese without any consequences. Remember all the Seinfeld episodes, Saturday Night Live, Rosie O'Donnell's comments, and Norbet? I note that the same slurs are not used as often against those who are Jewish, African-American, or even of Italian extraction. In fact, I hear the term now more than during the Sixties. For those of you who don't get it, "Chinaman" is as offensive to the Chinese as the N word or the K word are to African-Americans and Jewish-Americans. Stop picking on a helpless group that is never shown in a positive light in the media (unless of course you want a martial arts character, villain, or geek). Enough already!

Anti-semitism definitely was one of the central themes of last night's fine episode - Betty's shutting off her neighbor's anti-semitic crack is also worth noting.

By the way - to the last poster - I'm Jewish, and I'm not offended by the anti-semitic parts of the show. Mad Men is trying to depict what life was like at that time.

http://paullevinson.blogspot.com/2007/08/mad-men-3-hot-1960-kiss.html

>>>As a Chinese-American, I was offended by the "Chinaman" scenes in the latest episode. They had no redeeming value, were offensive, and represent a continuing and disturbing trend routinely seen and heard in the media. I understand that his colleagues wanted to play a practical joke on Pete Campbell, but why at the expense of an "oriental family". Just to get a laugh because he called someone a "Chinaman"? It appears that you can openly disparage and make fun of the Chinese without any consequences.

That was offensive. But then there's a lot of offensive stuff on this show--I find myself digging my nails into the furniture over the way women are treated.

But I think the show is trying to show things the way they were, which means we are in for a lot more offensive stuff.

I have been following Mad Men is an outstanding show and I watch each episode several times. I neither want to see this show turn into a "Nightmare of a soap" but get the feeling after epi 3 that is where it is headed. I am a member of the Standoff and House Message boards and several of us would like to jnow if AMC would start one for this show. I guarentee the response would be overwhelming. The show is so lifelike and the details are exactly how they were as I lived in the 60s. What a difference 47 yrs can make. I agree with the poster who wroye about the purple heart. Don's character has major flaws and I am really hold judgement till I see more episodes. If you could please have Midge (Rosemarie DeWitt)get more air time. Didn't se her at all in Episode 3. I thank you for a show which "tells it like it used to be" and is so accurate. Now we just need a message board to post and send private message to each other. House and Standoff has members from Denmark, Australia, UK, USA etc. Keep up the good work AMC

To verify the membership of House and Standoff boards just go to Fox/house or Fox/Standoff and list of visitors, members and posts will be shown.

Thanks so much, Dave

Don't watch much TV....but I am completely hooked on this extrodinary series.

Only thing missing...the New York accent (my mom's from NY and I always loved listening to her and her family speak)

I'm guessing it would have been too difficult to pull that off, considering the size of the cast.

IN LOVE WITH THIS SHOW. THANKS

Uh, wait a second. Somehow, I think many people here may be OVERTHINKING the fact that the "old Army buddy" calls Don Draper by another name, that of Dick Whitman. Could it be merely that the old Army buddy mistook Draper for some guy named Whitman with whom he served many years before? It happens occasionally, and everyone resembles SOME ONE! Hey, I used to actually KNOW a guy named Don Draper, so really, people with the same names or that resemble one another are not all that unusual. In episode one or two, we see Draper looking at his Purple Heart in a box with his name on it. And by the way, to the poster who said his or her father had three Purple Hearts in boxes WITHOUT the name on the box, often times, someone in the family would either go out and have the box engraved with the name of the recipient, or insist that this be done, so it's not all that unusual. Anyway, we see Draper looking at the medal and the box, and now some of you are suggesting that because an "old Army buddy" mistook Draper for some guy named Dick Whitman, that it automatically means Draper is living under an assumed name, or some such thing. I think it might simply be a case of mistaken identity, and since Draper seems to be a bit remote from nearly everything in his life, he just looked at the guy (quizzically) and said nothing. What annoys me is that we don't really know why Draper is so restless, we just know that he is. Somehow, I don't think he is living under an assumed identity, though.

Why are my comments appearing as posts from other people? I am Kitcat and my postings have appeared as Candace and Samantha? Talk about mistaken identity! What gives here? I have posted twice under Kitcat and the posts appear with the names of Candace and another yesterday, Samantha.

Wait a second, I get it...finally! The poster's name appears AFTER the post, not before it. OK, sorry, got it folks.

Kitcat..are you looking at the top or bottom of your comment?

I AM Candace, and I did write Aug.4th 8:26. My name appears after the comment as it should.

Take Care

Show is interesting, but I feel writers are "telling" us about life at the time instead of "showing" us. The themes of drinking, smoking, womanizing, etc. are crammed down our throats. My father was a famous ad man at the time and partly responsible for the Volkswagon "Think Small" campaign. Nowhere in this ad agency is there any sense that creative work is happening. Creative ad men at the time could be really off the wall; it feels like these ad men are just going through the motions. There is also not a good sense of NYC at the time. My father was one of those writers who was so brilliant that his bosses tolerated his drinking, and the fact that he often wrote his best copy on Sardi's' napkins. He was a true character - everyone on this show is very stereotypical as if they just came out of an encyclopedia about the time. I think viewers will lose interest without one truly charismatic character emblematic of the times. I would be happy to give many good and creative examples to the writers.

I also agree with several comments made here and on other areas of posting for this show. Everyone needs not pay such close attention to extremely small details as they will miss the large picture. IMO the show is meant is show life in the 60's--which I was apart of-- and how men and women acted and reacted. Women were treated rudely, unfairly and men men thought they were the KINGS. Sure it was a one income family situation with "Daddy" the bread winner and Mom raising kids. But this show hits all the nails on their heads. I LOVE IT and brings back both old and bad memories. Really hope Don doesn't turn into more of a jerk than is already is. Ehat ya think................Dave

We had high hopes for this show and gave it a couple of sincere tries especially since the period represents our era. But the script and the pseudo-drama are tedious and artificial. If those were our only complaints we'd just stop watching without comment and hope the show drifts into a well deserved oblivion. However, this pointless time sink is just another cooked up sales pitch, back door romance, hunting for a new crop of lung busted smoke addicts. One might wonder how much big tobacco coughed up for the production and whether the actors are able to buy insurance.

An article over at PopPolitics speaks to the method of "Mad Men" -- and how it uses allegory -- in both a similar and different way than, say, Arthur Miller's "The Crucible" -- to get these points across.

http://www.poppolitics.com/archives/2007/08/television-under-the-radar-ii

The show is booring and sucks.....Who would think such as thing would interest a modern audenience

The show is superior TV, and for the most part, is "spot on" for that period of time. However, the "Giant Plastic Doll House" did not exist....I would have had one!!!! I agree about the cake business. Don would have dropped the cake off and then bolted. (Cool return using the dog "Polly" as his cover.) Don's discontent may be explained by his Episode 3 sardonic statement to his neighbor, "..Yeah, we have it all". It may be as simple as Peggy Lee's 60's song,"Is That All There Is?". As for those "modern viewers" who think the show "sucks"... well, aren't you the Center of the Universe!!! No offense Gen Y, but you could learn a tremendous lesson about your parents,grandparents and America's current pysche from this Drama. What do you call "good TV"? I am truly interested

Using Amy Winehouse's "I'm No Good" as the song for the previews is great. All the music in the show is good. The nuances in set decoration to curious phrasing of dialogue make it necessary to watch espisodes again and again. Don bought the dog for Polly because Rachael had such fond memories of the dogs and maybe Don wants Polly to grow up to be someone like Rachael.

Did anyone catch the comment in the pilot when Don's girl in the city states that she doesn't make plans and she doesn't make breakfast and then in the 3rd episode, Betty made plans for Don to put together the playhouse and then states that she made breakfast for him? Complete opposites. I love this show. Speaking from experience, I can say that human behavior has not changed much at all!

OK,

big hype abt art direction. Must be big budget. Good hair.makeup,wardrobe, and all those 60's suburban houses are still intact- mother, I swear! Those were blue and yellow SOLO bev cups circa 2007 on the patio picnic table at the birtday party! No shit- plastic solo cups!

props, you're fired.

ANACHRONISM writ large. Now my disbelieve has been sabotaged- I'm not into it!.

Great series! The thought and research that went into it shows. This is reality, it offends some, yet is accurate. Well crafted!

Well, safe to say I am hooked. Caught this one night, by accident, and now I am a lost soul, waiting for Thursday nights...

Matthew Weiner has done it again, and he has done it with class. For the nay-sayers...just enjoy this trip, stop looking for something to be upset about. This is the way things were back then. Mr. Weiner's attention to detail is flawless, and I do love him for it.

Best and Brightest,

Marjie923

I'm really "digging" this show. I watched all three episodes back-to-back-to-back On Demand. Draper is a pretty mysterious guy with everyone knowing a little bit something different about him than another (note the co-worker who said "Don's not coming back. Am I the only one who knows this?!?!? when he slept off the drunk buzz after getting the cake).

I'm going to keep watching!

This Guy is over hyped. This show really blows. He was a co-producer of maybe 12 shows total of the sopranos. This gentleman did not do much at all except sell a crappy concept that is so off base to real life of the times than some bizaare psychopathic office building on the level of a "Platoon" style level where one takes all the problems of a generation and puts it in one office building. Come on folks lets call this cow what it is.

I'm enjoying the show.

Since Peggy is now reading "Lady Chatterley's Lover" I'm reminded of a great humorous review by one of the 50's-60's wittiest admen (and outdoors writers), Ed Zern. Wonder if this will surface in the series? Here's the review.

While writing for Field and Stream in the 1950s, Ed Zern suggested that the famous outdoorsman's magazine introduce a books section. His editor agreed and commissioned Zern to select a good "outdoor book" and review it. Incredibly, he chose D. H. Lawrence's Lady Chatterley's Lover which, unbeknownst to Zern, had been widely banned on account of its lusty descriptions of the erotic outdoor adventures of the gamekeeper and his employer's wife. Zern's review was masterfully oblivious:

"Although written many years ago, Lady Chatterrley's Lover has just been reissued by Grove Press, and this fictional account of the day-by-day life of an English gamekeeper is still of considerable interest to outdoor-minded readers, as it contains many passages on pheasant-raising, the apprehending of poachers, ways to control vermin, and other chores and duties of the professional gamekeeper. Unfortunately, one is obliged to wade through many pages of extraneous material in order to discover and savour these sidelights on the management of a Midland shooting estate, and in this reviewer's opinion this book cannot take the place of J. R. Miller's Practical Gamekeeping."

Zern, Ed (?- ) American writer

Who sings the theme song for the show ?????????

Amy Whinehouse sings the theme song "Im No Good"

If anyone is interested, we are live blogging Mad Man each thursday night over at newcritics.com, 10:00 p.m. ET. It doesn't matter if you love the series or hate it, just as long as you can merrily quip about it.

If anyone is interested, we are live blogging Mad Man each thursday night over at newcritics.com, 10:00 p.m. ET. It doesn't matter if you love the series or hate it, just as long as you can merrily quip about it.

I was elated when I saw the previews of Mad Men airing on television. I couldn't wait to see the first episode. However, the second episode was completely drab to me and not very entertaining....not like the Sopranos anyway. Hopefully, Thursday's show will be more tantilizing.

This idiotic depiction of '50s smoking white guys tucked in with new age dialog (they never even thought of micro anything then) is a slam on Darren Stevens and better TV.

Thanks for your hard-edged series (big deal) and shame for your slam on the Greatest Generation (they weren't all war heroes.) Can't wait for your take on Leave it to Beaver.

Jeff Lowe.

For Matt Weiner,

heard your interview on Fresh Air this afternoon. The show sounds great! Don't have cable or TV--just dvd and VHS but I DO WANT YOU TO KNOW my father in law worked for J.Walter Thompson during the very years the show is built around. He was a commuter on the train into Westchester every evening - - many cocktails on the club car, not to mention the oyster bar at grand Central station and all the cigarettes in between (when you could smoke on trains--and everywhere) The commute is an interesting aspect of the Ad Exec life. Carry on with your great scripts. We are giant fans of the Sopranos. Hope you get to read this. Much success to you! Ann Samson

not so sure about this yet having grown up in westport ct with a father at BBD&O whose job it was to be sober one with the pen after long martini lunches for the client. One thing for sure, no one drank champagne out of flutes in those days

Yea! for the toxicity and the nauance of this series...haven't seen work like this since Playhouse 90!

I am somewhat surprised by the comments made regarding Betty's lack of political savvy...remember this is 1960 not very much removed from the 50's and I don't think the average person was that politically astute...I remember that quite frankly a lot of folk were voting for Nixon just because of Ike and a seeming stability/prosperity that the Republicans brought to post-war America. To me her reaction was quite logical and in keeping with the social consciencness(sp) of the time...I remember thinking at the time in my then nine year old mind that there wasn't much difference between Nixon and Kennedy. (of course the thing that turned it for me was Kennedy calling King's wife while he was in jail for some trumped up civil rights charge.

Remember that the firm these guys work for is about to consider working for the Nixon campaign and this campaign is the first campaign that marketing, demographics and just general merchandising of a political candidate takes place...

That's what I like about this show...it does so well capture the period ... it's a time when everything is just on the very of changing...the Civil Rights Movement is heating up in the south but doesn't gain much national exposure til the bombing of 16th Street church; even the majority of college educated women are still foregoing careers for marriage and children though some women are just beginning to discuss the concepts that Betty Friedan talked about in her 1959 book the "Feminine Mystique"; it's pre space race just before the Beatles and Motown change American music and culture dead in the middle of the Cold War America...

One last note, while Dan maybe bored with Betty whom I think has some serious emotional/mental issues; it is very clear to me that he loves her and the kids dearly and they have kind an ironic anchor or moring(sp) for him. His extra marital affaiars provide physical and intellectual challenge but he seems to have chosen someone who is not interested in getting emotionally involved... In addition to him being a real hottie I get the sense that he's growing bored with his profession and does feel a bit threatened by that arrogant snothead, Pete who seemily hasn't paid any real dues for his position in the world and doesn't really know how to "play well with others"

Posted by: | August 10, 2007 at 12:37 AM

From the scene at the beginning of the 3rd episode, where Don is braced by an old army buddy on the train calling him by a completely different name, it looks like he's assumed the Draper identity from someone else. It’s possible that it was just a case of mistaken identity, but Draper’s reaction, giving a vague Upstate as where he lives, not giving his card to the other guy in exchange, etc., makes that seem unlikely.

Hard to say just when it could have happened, but one possibility would be the real Draper being killed in action along with his unit, so there was nobody left around who knew him personally, allowing our guy to switch dog tags with him. It might also have happened after the war, our guy being a friend or roommate who stepped in when Draper died.

His behavior shows major insecurities – his comments to his girlfriend about being found out as a fraud, his bugging out on the birthday party, these point to him putting up a major front.

* * *

Has anyone noticed that Salvatore is giving off a gay vibe? The sketch of the Lucky Strike ad mock-up with his "neighbor" shirtless in a hammock, his vague answers about having a girlfriend ("Hey, I'm Italian - what do you think?"), his agreeing with one of the girls who joined them at the strip club that she liked the place because it was smoky and full of men . . .

As for the junior exec showing up at the new secretary’s apartment and being invited in, I suspect they had some prior relationship and she still wants him. That would explain how he knew where she lived and her not sending him away. As he’s from a Society family and she’s working class, any budding relationship would have been clamped down by his family, as they set him up with a “proper” girl.

* * *

About the costumes, the designer is Katherine Jane (Janie) Bryant, late of Deadwood, who has a reputation for accuracy.

* * *

From my observations of my parents as a child in the 60s, I know that white shirts and skinny ties were standard and that virtually everyone drank and smoked. Hats for men were standard in the 50s, being explicitly required in the conservative professions like law, banking and accounting.

This changed dramatically in 1961, when JFK was the first president inaugurated not wearing one. There are pictures of him at the White house, walking down Pennsylvania Avenue with Jackie, etc., not wearing a hat. Hat sales plummeted that year and by the early 70s few men wore them. This is similar to what happened to mens' undershirt sales after Clark Gable appears shirtless in It Happened One Night during the 50s.

The sexism is pretty accurate. Classified ads from the time had separate sections - "Help Wanted, Men" and "Help Wanted, Women". Women were routinely asked about their marriage and family plans during interviews, and many hid their marriages from their employers lest they be fired. If they became pregnant they automatically lost their jobs, as being a full-time mother was still considered their proper role.

Men faced the same problem from the opposite direction. Employers wanted them to be married, officially because married men were more stable and better suited to the company and the wider society. The truth was that a married man with a dependent wife and children was locked in to his job. Both the employer and employees knew that he couldn't stand up for a raise, promotion, etc., because he didn't have the option of leaving if he didn't get it. There was no safety net.

Something else that's been mostly forgotten, the pay disparity giving men 30 - 40% more than women for the same types of jobs was a deliberate policy to promote the traditional family. Women couldn't make enough to buy their own houses (if banks would even consider giving them mortgages then!) or otherwise provide for themselves over the long haul, so marriage was a good alternative. This also prevented a lot of divorces, since the divorcee would have a lot of trouble supporting herself and the kids.

Men on the other hand got more than women to start and got raises when they married and again when they had children. The workplace was hierarchical and patriarchal, explicitly supporting traditional roles. Combined with the tax deductions for dependents and the lower Married Filing Jointly tax brackets, men were able to support families on one income.

See a Mary Tyler Moore episode from the early 70s, where Mary gets promoted and finds out the man she's replacing made more than she, even though Lou Grant acknowledges that she's better at it. In their confrontation Lou explains that he was paid more because he was a man and needs more money.

"His behavior shows major insecurities – his comments to his girlfriend about being found out as a fraud, his bugging out on the birthday party, these point to him putting up a major front."

Agreed. And given his class issues with Pete, it wouldn't surprise me if he was using the identity of someone higher up the social ladder.

I have just turned 40, I am married with two youngs kids, and have just returned from my second tour of Iraq, when Draper pulls out his purple heart and sees his name on his box, he really hit me, becasue I have a medal box with my name on it, A BRONZE STAR, I can really understand Drapers feeling that there is no tomorraw, war does that to you, you get home and think is there anything else, is this what I want, I really enjoyed the military metaphors last night, "this is your commanding officer" wonderful

I must say that I am still somewhat of a traditionalist in my view of marriage. I believe marriage is for life, but I also know that it takes two people to make a marriage work. My mother has even more traditional values than I do. I was taught that you stick by your man no matter what (unless, of course, he abuses you or your children). The stigma of divorce isn't as harsh in today's society as it was in the 1960s. My mother is the only one in her family to get a divorce, and that was a decision she struggled with for several years before going through with it.

misogyny as excuse for misandry (Long live the matriarchy!)

and i am pretty sure my comments are being deleted as well, though i am still searching for them....