presented by

Mad Men

Talk About...Smoking and Drinking at Work

The show depicts office drinking and smoking at a level almost unthinkable in most professions today.  If you lived in the 60 -- looking back on it now -- do you find that behavior shocking or not?  If you're younger, how does it look to you from the vantage point of today?

  • Comments (32)
  • (0)
  • Email this entry
  • Link
  • Add This!

Filed under: Inside Mad Men

Comments

default userpic

I really loved the first episode, especially the concentration on the tobacco industry. I don't think people today realize how prevalent cigarette ads were in those days. The show is really well written and well acted. Great stuff.

I wonder if the Mad Men wrote this tobacco ad?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOl2LSswWJs

default userpic

GREAT stuff! I never watch any television, and was really intigued by the acting and dialogue displayed by this show. We'll be watching weekly now! Very good to get in on the "ground floor" of a new series too.It seems so far away now, but all these things were part of my childhood, and it seems almost unthinkable that a time like this actually existed compared to nowdays.

default userpic

Mad Men was thrilling to watch. I was part of the Ad World from 1958 to 1989.

The authenticity is amazing. It was strictly sex,booze,cigarettes,package goods advertising,and all the sexual overtones. The treatment of women is unfortunately totally real.

Yet, there were some truly talented writers and art directors who created really good ads unlike this agency.

Later on there was Doyle,Dane.Bernbach Advertising, and the outstanding campaigns it produced re: Volkswagon ["This Is A Lemon"], "You Don't Have To Be Jewish To Love Levy's" [rye bread], "Nobody doesn't like Sara Lee", etc.

While the business changed and became more creative for a while, this first episode sets the tone of a completely realistic period in the Ad Biz. The performances are superb, the innuendos and sets and costume details are right on. The cynicism and client fear is clearly felt.

And the photography and graphics are stunning as is the music. This first episode had real mood, and at the end there were shots that reminded me of Edward Hopper, of emotional isolation, and

of lonliness and loss.

Corruption and infidelity are in the backstory, and along with the smoke, I cannot wait for the next episode of this superbly riveting and stylish show.

default userpic

'tweren’t like that, McGee!

Yeah, most of us smoked. And there were certainly plenty of three-martini lunches and the occasional stripper here and there. And, Lord knows there were enough weird folks and incidents to make several series of noir comedy. But…

“It’s toasted!” may well have come from the mouth of a client, but, no Creative Director would go into a make-or-break meeting with a major account, like Lucky Strike, with absolutely nothing in his pocket but his sweaty palms. Nor would any agency president go into that meeting without having seen the campaign recommendation.

Yes, there were few women in top spots. And secretaries were expected to get coffee and occasionally sew on a missing collar button. But they were never ‘the girls.’ And the smart account guys respected and appreciated them (and sometimes got coffee for them). None of the overt sexual overtones and crude remarks, unless you wanted to have your schedule totally screwed up for the next month.

As for the anti-semitic line of having to “go all the way to the mail room” to find a Jew in the agency, not in the major NYC shops I worked for – Benton & Bowles (Tide), William Esty (Fab) and Jack Tinker & Partners (Alka-Seltzer). The ‘magic’ creative team du jour was a Jewish Copy Writer and an Italian Art Director. And the Media Departments virtually closed down on Jewish holidays.

This may be good TV, but it’s pretty bad history.

default userpic

'tweren’t like that, McGee!

Yeah, most of us smoked. And there were certainly plenty of three-martini lunches and the occasional stripper here and there. And, Lord knows there were enough weird folks and incidents to make several series of noir comedy. But…

“It’s toasted!” may well have come from the mouth of a client, but, no Creative Director would go into a make-or-break meeting with a major account, like Lucky Strike, with absolutely nothing in his pocket but his sweaty palms. Nor would any agency president go into that meeting without having seen the campaign recommendation.

Yes, there were few women in top spots. And secretaries were expected to get coffee and occasionally sew on a missing collar button. But they were never ‘the girls.’ And the smart account guys respected and appreciated them (and sometimes got coffee for them). None of the overt sexual overtones and crude remarks, unless you wanted to have your schedule totally screwed up for the next month.

As for the anti-semitic line of having to “go all the way to the mail room” to find a Jew in the agency, not in the major NYC shops I worked for – Benton & Bowles (Tide), William Esty (Fab) and Jack Tinker & Partners (Alka-Seltzer). The ‘magic’ creative team du jour was a Jewish Copy Writer and an Italian Art Director. And the Media Departments virtually closed down on Jewish holidays.

This may be good TV, but it’s pretty bad history.

default userpic

I know the writer is trying to get his message across about the smoking.

The smoking is a given when you see it once or twice.

I think that as a viewer you start looking at the smoking and not listening to what they have to say.

It takes away from the actors’ performance.

The smoking in each scene is very annoying to a non smoker.

You stop listening to the story.

You start to analyze which actor might or might not smoke in real life.

I found myself waiting to see which one would start choking and coughing. I get it they all smoked like wildfire lets get on with the story.

Maybe show ashtrays with used cigarettes.

But let the actors act without all the puffing.

You have something good going on but you killing it.

default userpic

I love this show! There is nothing else like it on TV. I find the early 60's time period fascinating. I also think that today's young people, especially young women, should watch it, just so thay can see what life was like not so long ago.

I will be an avid viewer and have told all my friends to watch. Keep up the great work!!

default userpic

Show is good. Are the actors getting extra compensation for combat pay? All that smoking can't be good for their lungs. It's hard enough for actors to work in Bee smoke. I hope you guys are using some kind of SFX so your actors don't get sick and have to sue for the abuse in the workplace. Yeah, I remember the cigarettes everywhere - but I'm concerned about what you're making your actors do. Like asking them to suck on some lead paint from China. Ouch!

default userpic

The gratuitous anti-semitic remarks marred the show, especially coming from a writer who made his dough slandering Catholics in the Sopranos. Start with Paul Rand and work your way in any direction and you'll find talented, creative Jews throughout the 50s and 60s NY ad world. The relatively few WASPs involved may have been Ivy League jocks, but they weren't dopes and hired talent wherever they found it. BTW, all the Drapers I know -- and I know several different families -- are Jewish.

default userpic

I'm sure some people will think this show is too campy to be real but the fact is that if you did a morph of this + Ugly Betty you would have today's contemporary ad agency - complete with totally-bitchy-broad-in-charge. You MUST figure out a way to write in some tough, powerful, sexy women who are ad agency execs, without stooping to stupid stereotypes. I worked in advertising for 25 years - the last 15 as a senior manager - and had the time of my life.

Turandot-doesn't-die, July 26, 2007

default userpic

I really don't remember that the effects of smoking were discussed at great length socially or as business criteria, however this is the most engaging series I've seen in decades and it isn't far off the mark at all. It has all the bells and whistles of a memorable and lasting series if you don't let the characters get boring and build something really special on this foundation of characters and story line set in a timeline that has a sense of sensationalism all it's own.

I'm young enough to enjoy it and old enough to know that you have captured a very special. period. Thanks for the best in a long time.

default userpic

The jury is still out on this show.

While the production is cool, all the characters are cardboard. I'm waiting for episode three

default userpic

The jury is still out on this show.

While the production is cool, all the characters are cardboard. I'm waiting for episode three

default userpic

The jury is still out on this show.

While the production is cool, all the characters are cardboard. I'm waiting for episode three

default userpic

I totally agree with the comments regarding the smoking scenes that were posted by Bob Sindelar earlier (July 23).

I worked in advertising, and yes, smoking was a common as breathing. But, in this show, it's sooooo obvious that it detracts from the story line. I find myself irritated by the non-smoking actors who pretend to know how to smoke, watching for the fake cigs, counting the number of times each actor takes a puff on the pipe, the cigerillos, the stogies, and, of course, the lit and unlit cigerettes. What I have not noticed, were any actors removing the bits of tobacco from their tongues. A common event with Lucky's, Old Gold, and all the other Non-Filtered cigerettes of that time.

As an ex-smoker, I get the picture, but after the first episode I find it as distasteful as a dirty ashtray. I listened to the 2nd episode (makes great radio) while doing the dishes. A great story is in the telling and writing...not in smoke and mirrors.

default userpic

Opps, I meant to refer to the comments shared by Rebecca, July 24th, not Bob Sindelar, although I do agree with his assessment as well.

default userpic

Nothing has really changed I am willing to bet, it is just that now, with all this PC and culture of fear (don't want to offend anyone...God forbide!) no one says what they used to think out loud.

default userpic

As the daughter of an ad guy of this era, I agree with Son of Ad Guy: This show has a lot of things wrong, and my dad agrees. Unfortunate racial and ethnic attitudes would have been far more understated than they are here; this group would have congratulated themselves on their liberal attitudes -- even if it was basically an old boy's club, they were Ivy League boys. The office sets are great. The home set is terrible -- way too frumpy and wrong taste for a fashionable suburban couple -- think about the interior of the Petree's house on the Dick Van Dyke Show (1961) -- no ugly prints on those walls. Also, mom's clothes are awful. They live in New York, not the Midwest. She's an attractive, fashionable wife of an attractive fashionable guy. Even if they don't have much money yet, she would have looked conservative (in contrast to the mistress) but still fashionable. To get this right, all they had to do was look at Laura Petree, or at Lord and Taylor ads for that year -- that's how she would have dressed. Kids would have been dressed from Best and Co. I know they're overdoing things for effect sometimes, but it doesn't work. Sure, ad people drank a lot at lunch and after work, but in the office? All day? And smoking in the doctor's examination room and in the elevator? Crazy and distracting. Also, frumpy secretary girl would probably not even have been hired at a fashionable agency -- she dresses like she's going to her junior high sock hop. Remember, women could be fired as recently as 1975 for being 10 pounds over the weight limit if they were flight attendants. I appreciate how far this show went not to have anachronisms like the wrong typewriter or watch, however, they missed the biggest anachronism of all -- attitude. This agency looks and acts like a bunch of CPAs or insurance claims adjustors. They're supposed to be hip and cool, but they're grim, rude, sarcastic smart-asses from our own time. Although they said things to women we would never tolerate now, they were also brought up to be polite to women, hypocritical as that may seem to us. This was a fun (if frenetic) part of Fun City. Compared with fighting in a war, which most of them had done, they were having a great time. The creators of this show have taken our idea of cool way backwards and it doesn't work. Did they watch The Apartment? Did they ask around? No, they didn't do their homework well, and it could have been so much fun. Disappointing.

default userpic

Biggest surprise was finding that Don Draper was a creative director and not a management supervisor. Whether the 1960's or the 1860's, ad biz or show biz, creative people are by nature right-brained, left bank sorts. Draper,in style, bearing and dress, is an in-control, in-the-envelope kind of guy; a prototypical account person. Same can be said for his staff. Creatives often had ties and jackets stored in offices for unexpected client meetings but they rarely wore them and certainly not in internal meetings. The "suits" afterall were the aptly named "other."

Wardrobe and casting would then seem to be an error and certainly missed opportunities. With everyone dressed like everyone, it's hard to tell creative from account and research from media. It's a blur of dark suits. A wardrobe advisor might have suggested a Harris tweedy look for research, a rumples Sears look for media, Brooks Bros or Paul Stuart for account, and vintage army-navy for creative.

A foreboding note was introduced. Draper's past was avoided except for the Modes-in-the-basket comment. It suggests an embarrassing past that could be a clue to the present. Relationships are also worth noting. His marriage is with a perfect Doris Day figure who serves breakfast; his affair is with an imperfect woman who doesn't serve breakfast. His wife lives in luxury but is falling apart; his woman lives in a tenament but has it all together. More soap than advertising, but possibly a clue to the man within.

Draper aside, the younger male players fumble badly in their too-quick-to-grope style. Really embarrassing. The objective may have been the same, but advertising men were always smoother and more patient.

And this brings us to the final point. The women in this series are a race apart. They're all support people who seem to be there for the preying. The only women professionals we've seen are the Austrian research analyst and the department store heiress. Fact is, women in the Sixties were important, particularly in research, media, and creative. Account services was a male extension of "good" schools and "good" clubs, but this broke down when the business became more competitive. Clients took the initiative by hiring talent more than type; agencies followed. Once there were women product managers, there could be women account managers.

So,if there were flaws in the production it was in casting and wardrobe, in the infantile depiction of advertising men and in the lack of depiction of advertising women.

default userpic

I love the show and all of the smoking and drinking. The show depicts a time when people minded their own business and didn't interfere with the habits (good and bad) of adults. This show depicts the last ADULT time in this country. Now we are run (and run-over) by a bunch of soccer moms who think that kids should be kept in bubble-wrap and smokers should be put away. Alittle benign neglect never hurt anyone!

Love the show - keep up the great work!

default userpic

I was an avid smoker in the 60s, point taken. Smoking on Mad Men is so prevalent and many of the actors seem to be having trouble looking relaxed with the smoking. It is as if they were handling an unusual prop. We get the point.

Is this a cover of "The Man in the Grey Flannel Suit"??

default userpic

I'm a smoker and I love all the smoking they show. I'm sure all the actors were informed before they signed onto the series about what to expect and if anyone had a problem with it they wouldn't be doing the show. Sometimes I wish I was alive back then when people had rights and there was such a thing as freedom.

default userpic

My 70-something dad watched an episode last week. He said most people smoked in the 1960s,but not nearly to the extent that it is depicted in the series. He said that while some men did have affairs with secretaries at work, it not as blatant and pervasive as suggested in the show. I guess the idea is for people today to congratulate themselves on how much we've progressed since then, but have we? Yes, woman have the same career opportunities nowadays as men, thank goodness, but based on the lyrics of some popular songs today, or advertisements today featuring naked women, demeaning attitudes toward women have simply been channeled into new outlets.

default userpic

Alot of bloggers seem like they are 12 or people you are trying to be politically correct about an era where smoking was concidered energetic, good for you! I have old life magazines that endorses such claims...the show is excellent...and the womanizing is about right! Hey ladies take heed how women have evolved since then I would've gone mad...or not, since it was NORMAL???

default userpic

All I can think of is that if people really smoked as much back then as they do on the show, every room everywhere would smell like a dirty ashtray.

When I was in college in the 80's, we had a smoking lounge in our dorm. The place stank! And every time anyone spent any amount of time in there, whether you smoked or not, you'd come out with your hair and clothes smelling like stale cigarette smoke.

default userpic

I would go nuts if people smoked as much as on the series in the workplace. I think the producer is going for the whole "gracefulness" of smoking. Back in the day they probably didnt realize that cancer and all sorts of health problems would eventually come back to haunt all these guys. It does however make the series look a bit magical. the smoking the drinking the women all stuff that cmon guys it would be awesome to have a little more room to breathe in the workplace.

default userpic

I too can recall the 60's, yes we did smoke a lot, me included, but yikes, we didn't smoke that much, come on, lighten up some.

default userpic

I don't ususally post to these type of forums but I like this show a lot and feel compelled to tell a lot of you who are so worked up about the smoking, the drinking, the womanizing and how "unrealistic" a depiction of a (early) 1960 ad agency this is, to please RELAX.

It's a dramatic televion show, not a documentary. Think about how interesting (NOT) it would be if your workplace and home life were filmed and broadcast on television.

Dramatic license and exaggeration are frequently used to create an effect, make a point, entertain, all those things.

The show is, in my humble opinion, beautifully shot, very well written and acted, and entertaining as hell. It would also serve us well to keep in mind that we're 5 episodes into the first season. Let's see where they go with the stories and these characters for a while before passing ultimate judgement.

Anyway, that's my two cents. I'm outtahere.

default userpic

The best show on television hands down! I listened to the interview on NPR and knew I had missed the first episode of a ground breaking series. The historical accuracy seems to be up for debate, however, my parents meet in NYC in the early 60’s and most of the socio-economic structure seems to be consistent with their experiences. From a personal perspective I would like to see the symbolic African-American placed in the show, because my father earned a masters degree in chemistry but no one would employ him in Boston so he moved to NYC. While I realize their where very few professional African-Americans they did exist.

default userpic

thinking today how 5 yrs ago in my corner office, i could light up at will, how much more work i seemed to crank out...sometimes now i just find myself staring, waiting for the blankness to pass. god..jon hamm is beyond breathtaking. i look at him as draper & suddenly morality, scruples-everything is off the table, everything is on...or maybe it's like he says, i'm living like there's no tomorrow, because there isnt' one.

strange, melancholy time this was...we could still think that if we tried, grabbed hard enough, far enough, we'd reach and connect. that's all gone now...

default userpic

can this show get any more boring? duh.

default userpic

can this show get any more boring? duh.

Leave a comment