Talk About...Sexism at Work, Male & Female Roles
There's been much discussion about how men and women behaved toward each other in 1960 and how they behave now. Have things really changed, or just gone beneath the surface? Were you, your parents or grandparents working in an office in the early 60s? How does it compare?
Comments open below.






















WOW! Great first Episode. I loved the dialogue, the old school non-politically correct comments about women, Jews, and they way things really are. The frankness was so refreshing. Great set design and customers, really looed like the 60s.
It held my attention and I'm looking forward to the next one. Wish it wasnt on so late.
Good job guys.
Watched the premiere episode last night. Much like a cheap and tawdry coupon that was a minor plot point it will keep me coming back for more. The producers have figured out several old school/fresh ways to add advertising into the programming itself. This is basically the first cigarette advertising I have seen on TV since I was a kid! One major blooper was inferring that Lucky Strike started using the slogan “It’s Toasted” in 1960, when in fact it was first used in 1917! One minor blooper, it’s doubtful that the Metro North logo seen when the creative director/main character heads home was the one used in 1960. The image here is of the character Midge, described as “A smart, ambitious art illustrator, Midge is a thoroughly independent career woman – much like the multitudes of women venturing into the workforce for the first time. Midge sets her own rules…”. she is the quasi-bohemian mistress of the main character. Hooray for illustrators! Most of the characters so far are despicable, flawed human beings, just like any office in the world. The series takes place in 1960s era Madison Avenue and has everything you could hope for, sexism, racism, closeted creatives, the “Italian” agencies, the Jewish “agencies”, smoking in the office, drinking in the office, strippers, infidelity, crises of conscience, lying, bitching…all of the things that make this business so different, so appealing. Just kidding of course, it has all that, but all of those things were and are true in corporate America and life in general. I am old enough to have gotten into the business at the tail end of many of these anachronistic elements, I remember smoking at the office, wearing suits to work everyday, more blatant forms of mysogeny, anti-Semitism and racism, closet cases, and most of all total douche bag account executives. Happily most of those things have been tossed aside or at least swept under the rug in the last 25 years. Although I do miss when everyone wore a suit or a dress to work everyday.
HBO exec must be kicking themselves this morning for passing on this show. What a perfect replacement show for the Sopranos.
This was my second viewing of the episode, and I felt it was even better the second time around.
This show deserves to become a hit.
Thank christ for this show,- I looove it. The show is genius, plainly. Its what you call "good television", and its timing couldnt have been better being everything else on tv is just so damn tired. Mad Men is the breath of fresh air to a television so plagued with reruns, old ideas, and shamefull writing that almost seems drunk. With reality shows seeming closing in on me as the only thing to watch - my tv was on the morphine drip and I had made plans to bury it. To all those responsible for Mad Men - thank you for saving television.
Great show. I watched it twice since my husband missed the first airing and I picked up lots of things I missed the first time around. I agree, HBO really missed out since watching it uniterupted by commercials would add to the intrigue. But, hey, commercials and advertising are their biz so I guess it fits neatly together. Nice use of the tidbits of info in between each commercial as it makes them interesting.
My mom used to talk about how terrible it was in the 50's and 60's how men used to treat women like little children; how degrading it was to be talked down to all the time. She said men used to slap women on the rear and chase them around the desk. My dad used to have girlie calendars hanging in his office. Women who are not old enough to remember this time don't know what our foremothers did to change the culture of the working world and society in general from the time depicted in this show. Sexual harrassment laws are a neccessity. This show is a good reminder of how far we have come even though things are definitely not perfect.
The scene of Peggy at the genecologists office made me squirm listening to him passive-aggressively call her a whore. But, the double standard was definitely in place.
This show simultaneously repulses yet intrigues me.
This show is incredible. I just barely remember the 60s but all of the things I remember are recreated to dead on perfection. Thanks to the creators and thanks to the sponsors!
Mad Men is a disgusting and vulgar reminder of the dark past. Obviously you have never had to work and smile as you accepted the condensing snide remarks and pats on the butt and all to put food on the table. What a laugh, right! Remember what you so glibly think is funny was real. Have a good one guys!!!!!!!!!
Thank God things have changed. I work at an ad agency and there are still some women around who started in the biz in the mid-60s/early 70s. The funny thing is that even with all of the equality in the workplace now (which is still even a bit of a myth), in some perverse way, they say they miss the old days. They say that men were men and women were secretaries. There was no gray area for them and it "made things easier."
I'm work with the president of the agency and am thankful that he doesn't call me a secretary, values my opinion and doesn't chase me around my desk. If it was 1960 when I was hired for my position, I doubt I would have even gotten the job. I probably would have popped the first man who commented on my ankles.
I was a secretary during the 60's....and this show runs true to everything we had to put up with. If sexual harrassment laws had existed during that decade, I would be a rich woman today.
What's the theme song for this show called?
great first show. i was only 8 in 1960 but i had a few older sisters who were in their 20s during this time and I get to see what they may have gone thru. Love the show
As a black man, I wonder sometimes if they make shows like "Mad Men" just to release (and validate?) some of the pent up misogyny and racism that still lingers in America.
Does anyone still yearn for a time when white men were men, and women knew their place?
Maybe. But the writer/director doesn't need a drum or a sledgehammer to tell this story. All he has to do is hold up a mirror: if you've got a pulse, then you'll be REpulsed by what you see. If not, then television is the least of your problems.
Can't wait for the next episode.
I'll be watching for more (Class of '53)
Since obviously Matthew Weiner wasn't even born until 1965, it would be difficult for him to have lived through that working era. I was 12 in 1960, but by the time I started working in late ’66, the men and environment had not changed all that much, except the Beatles had set the music free. The several things this show got TERRIBLY wrong were as follows:
1. No one in their right mind would go to a gynecologist on their 1st day of work, much less would go to one recommended by a total stranger, and even much much less would the company let you trot on down to the local gyno. Can anyone get an appointment that quickly? On her lunch hour? How convenient! I watched the show again yesterday to see when did that subject came up and never once saw that lead in. When did this idea take legs– at coffee break at 10:00 a.m. – hey, Peggy, why don’t you go get on the pill at lunch. Plus, NO ONE went to a gyno until they were engaged, married, having a baby, and hysterectomies. The pill was nearly unheard of in the early 60’s and just a blip on the radar in the mid to late 60’s, everyone was on a diaphragm or rythym and blues.
The gratuitous scene of a pelvic exam was utterly unecessary! Just show us the door to the gynecologist office and we’ll get the message. What on earth were the writers thinking? No gynecologist I have ever seen professionally has EVER walked in, lit up a cigarette, put it in an ashtray and got out the instruments for a quick look-see. Then, pick up the cigarette and walk out! Was that in keeping with reminding us that everyone smoked ad nauseum in 1960? It was senseless, equally ridiculous, and thoroughly distracting to the plot. The women I’ve talked with all thought the very same thing.
2. And, what is up with that creepy ad guy, Pete, showing up at Peggy’s apartment. Between 5:15 and the bachelor party, when did he have the chance to dash back to the office to get her address? Now, why didn’t the writers take the time to “build up” the sexual tension between Peggy and the creep over episodes. So Peggy decided sure c’mon in, hop in the bed even though (a) she just got on the pill, er, at lunch (b) doesn’t know him, (c) doesn’t know about sex we assume (d) has an inconvenient roommate and (e) it’s not the summer of sex, drugs & rock and roll quite yet. Not believable, unless she’s a secret strumpet in a sweater set and poodle skirt.
3. The other thing is that working in the mid-60’s, and even up until the 1980s, I never, ever heard anyone say “a woman can’t talk to me like that!” Draper would, in 1960, just be condescending and thanked her for her time, and had her escorted out. Chivalry, you see, was expected, even though women were demeaned beyond belief. Just in a different manner. Guys would pat your fanny, yet still hold open the door and walk on the outside of the sidewalk. They would not yell at a customer, ever, period, male or female.
The writers should focus on the intrigue and subtleties of this show instead of throwing scenes at us like sledgehammers.
The most positive thing though, it’s far & away better than the ghastly John From Cincinnati.
Best regards!
Janette Richards
GTx, Inc.
Clinical Trials - Enrollment & Payment Disbursement
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Memphis, TN 38163
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I believe the first episode is set in 1959.
Wasn't Draper asked to work on a political campaign
for a guy who is a navy war hero-John Kennedy.
Salvatore is gay.
The theme song to Mad Men is called You Know I'm No Good:
"I cheated myself.
Like I knew I would.
I told you.
I was trouble.
Ya know that I'm no good."
This is Amy Winehouse's second album called "Back to Black". She is one of the finest soul albums, British or otherwise, to come out for years.
I can't tell you how shocked I am at the outward racism, womanizing, drinking and smoking everywhere on this show. I love it because of it's candidness and accuracy of the day however painful it may be to see the way these men treat women and Jews. I just hope that the public sees it for what it is, a tv series and not a justification for treating people the way these men do.
Not sure what I think of this show yet. Frankly, I would have liked to have seen something a little bit further into the future, like the 1970's where people were starting to value their own empowerment irregardless of race, religion or sex. I went through the tail end (no pun intended) of the sexual harrassment era and it was no fun. Technically I assaulted a guy who grabbed my behind in front of everyone. I asked him privately to come into an office with me, promptly grabbed his tie in a chokehold and down to my face and told him I was going to bust his nose into a bloody pulp if he ever touched me again. He quit shortly thereafter. Other than the sexist/racist/crap the show was very pretty and I'm sure a lot of men will like it, like women who used to "only look at the pretty pictures" in magazines. Give me Bogart & Bacall already. I hope we get a more empowering storyline here shortly or I will stop watching the show. And this is the twenty-first century?? I'd rather see a film about the 19th century when at least there was a veneer of respect expected in public towards women. Tootles!
I hope the men who are raving about this show have the balls to state that they are men otherwise I am going to put them in an apron and have them shine my shoes!!! I've come a long way baby to get where I am today and I'm not going back. Lady Farin
You know what they say in advertising, that free bad press to generate interest is like spending thousands on a ho-hum campaign. Too bad it seems to be good to shock and offend folks nowadays instead of inspire them. I hope there's something else to the show besides what an awesome job they did in art direction and costume design and casting. It's not going to make it unless some of the offended character types fight back. I sure hope it doesn't spawn a rash of young men thinking it's okay to objectify women because technically touching someone without their permission is considered assault in a court of law. Can anyone write something great without all the freakin' shock value, on yes, they've done that, it's called Battlestar Galatica!!
it's like a trashy soap opera set in the 60's.
i will probably watch it this week too.
Not bad for a pilot, but a little more research would have been nice. The show claims to be set in 1960, but the selectric typewriter wasn't introduced until 1961. The original model was rounded, mimicking the shape of a 50's automobile, not the model with the squared-off edges that came much later but somehow managed to wind up on the desk of every secretary in the Mad Men steno pool. Is time travel a subplot that I missed?
Oh, and the idea that Peggy was a conniving seductress was not credible.
Back to the original question. All the sexual tension between co-workers, the affairs, flirting etc... still goes on simmering below the surface. Nothing can reverse human nature. Thank god! I've been in office environment for 20 years dealing with the "Anita Hill factor", I've had subs hit on me and I've had the owners wife do so as well. It is impossible to spend 40 to 60 hours a week with a member of the opposite sex and not feel interest and emotional attachment. This show may provide an outlet for fantasies and create some sparks in the modern day workplace. As for the male characters portrayed here, It's PC nowadays to make every hetero male charcter a dumb, oafish life support system for a penis. That's what we do in America nowadays, Tim Allen, King of Queens, According to Jim, Evyerybody loves Raymond etc... As men in our society, we are constantly reminded how lucky we're to have these well grounded, intelligent women around us. It' been my experience in the workplace that women are just as aggressive, just as unfaithful and enjoy that behavour at least as much as men do if not more. This show came along just in time!
I worked in ad biz for 30 years. Started in late 50's, and this show so far is right on. Women were "tolerated" but could never achieve real status. Jews and Blacks were "out". Women were secretaries, or lower type assistants.It wasn't until the 60's that Doyle,Dane,Bernbach changed the way Ads looked. Remember Volkswagon's "This Is A Lemon"? Or the Fizz Fizz of Alka Seltzer?
Mostly what I liked about this show is how it tells the backstory of sexuality, drinking, smoking, the insecurities &
confusion of immature men trying to feel special because they were "creative". We see that they are only pushing merchandise. Like cigarettes and Richard Nixon. Stylistically and dramatically this show is exciting, edgy, and what could be better than the wonderful set that looks like an Edward Hopper painting [at the end]? And the last scene is a pip as I listened to Vic Damone, and sensed our antihero's lonliness and isolation. HBO...you goofed!
I missed the first episode and caught the ending of one tonight, I came to this site to watch it from the beginning as it seemed interesting (especially since I'm currently getting my masters in advertising) I however was very disappointed to see that I have to buy the episodes on itunes. I don't want to pay for a show I've never seen, I would have thought having at least the first few episodes available in full, for free, on this site would have helped hook some those who want to catch up. Therefore i will not be visiting itunes, hopefully I'll catch a repeat of the first episode at some point
The only reason I watched this show was for Rosemarie Dewitt, Midge. I saw her in "Standoff" and she is one of the finest "new' actresses out there. Now that I have seen the first episode I would continue watching whether Rosemarie is in them or not. I wasn't born anywhere near the '60's but it is a nice look back to how women use to be treated. I'm glad it's not that way anymore.
P.S. Rosemarie rocked in her little role..keep 'em comin
Interesting if superficial first show true on social issues. However, the idea of anyone walking out on a client is absurd, and if anyone did that in any of the five agencies I worked during a 40 year career they would have quickly found themselves out on the street, perhaps blacklisted in this (actually) small industry where nearly every "name" was known. (Madison Avenue in the Brooks Bros, area)
I love this show. One, of the main reasons is because i feel like it correctly depics the tackless relationship between boss and employee, man and woman. There's no question about it, that woman back in that day were considered slow to learn, "toys" of the office.
"this machine was created by a man but they made it simple enough for a woman to use"-Joan: pilot
see what i mean
and the character that i feel the most sorry for is peggy. Not only because she is getting hit on from all angles, but because she actually thinks that there is something between her and that sad excuse for a man, Campbell.
i may have a strong opions about these characters pretty early in the game, but if i'm wrong i'll be the first to admit it. IF.
I really agree with how sexism is depicted in the show, since I experienced it first-hand in the mid '80's. I worked for a Japanese firm in Manhattan back then, as an administrative assistant. There was one executive who, every time I wore a particular dress, told me he'd like to pull down on the neckline and see what happened. Another executive, who I barely knew, approached me one day in the conference room where I was having lunch, and offered to set me up in my own apartment because he could tell I knew how to "do it right". Even my own boss confessed at one point that one of the reasons he had hired me was for my "big American chest". Needless to say, I didn't stay in that job too long!
Great ambiance in this episode - I especially liked the Twilight Zone reference ... full review at http://paullevinson.blogspot.com/2007/07/mad-men-2-smoke-and-television.html
Even though this show is pretty entertaining; the women are treated like walking flesh who happen to know how to use a device a man created- was it really that complicated? I believe a man invented the elevator,and hell,those are only buttons, too! It seems as though the men want women to think that they're being funny and polite, all the while still being demeaning. I believe the one thing we know now is that Women happen to be better at playing "The game", and being polite has nothing to do with it, we just get it done.
I loved the scene where Don, the married lover gets jealous about the TV. Her other lover gave it to her? She has other lovers? Even though she did placate him and toss it out the window; I guess, then, we wanted our married lovers to feel safe as they got dressed to go home to the little woman. Thank god we can screw men like they think they screw us, and send them on their merry way to that woman we definitely don't want them to leave.
I'm 26, and I think this show is pretty important. It's a reminder to me of how much things have changed, how things used to be, and it allows us to question how far things have really come, how things can still be better. It's fascinating and revolting at the same time. I kept thinking, Oh my god, that was my grandma! That was my grandpa! It's amazing how much has changed for women in such a short amount of time. I have never experienced harassment the way Peggy has in the workplace, and I hope I never will.
I think the political correctness, or lack thereof, of this show is not far from today's reality. Sure, the way women are treated in the workplace in the show and the open anti-semetic dialogue seems taboo, but I do not think that popular opinion (in general) has changed much from the days of Don Draper and Pete Campbell. The atmosphere in today's workplace continues to have the same tendencies as they did in the 60s, the only change is that people have become more polite with their opinions. People have gone soft and do not speak their minds anymore, which just leads to more insensitivity and more bigotry. I find the frankness of this show is extremely refreshing and should make everyone long for the days of yesteryear. Great show!
I'm glad to know I wasn't the only one who noticed the inaccuracy of the typewriter. I know it sounds a bit petty, but if this show is going to tout itself as authentic to the period--even going as far as a mom not scolding her daughter for wearing a dry cleaning bag over her head except to tell her that the dry cleaning better not be messed up--then little things like office equipment should be correct. All I had to do was Google IBM Typewriters to find a history on their typewriters and know that you got it wrong. (see www.etypewriters.com/history.htm).
Anyway, it is an interesting show to watch for someone raised in the 60's. They weren't necessarily "the good ole days."
I was born in 1950. I remember very well my dad going to work every day in his suit and HAT. Hats were a necessity and staple for men and their wardrobes in the 60's. I can't believe this show has never depicted any of this men w/ a hat!!!!!
Man the men back than sure had it made, women knew their place and all was right with the world. Although I do not care for the smoking but i guess it is a small price to pay to be back in charge of the world.
Your research wasn't quite as sterling as represented in the "Making of Mad Men" special. Tonight's episode (#102) showed Peggy typing on an IBM Selectric typewriter, which was not introduced until 1961.
Well done show, indeed. And carefully researched!
As a present day ad guy, myself, all I can say is, the more things change, the more they stay the same...
I'm glad to see that young women are so shocked by the treatment of women on "Mad Men." Aside from details like typewriter models, this show is pretty accurate (it cerainly brought back chilling memories of working in a Manhattan office for me!)I'm not sure if viewers are getting the idea that the ONLY choices for women in 1960 were the ones you show--housewife, secretary/toy girl, or whore. Nonetheless, good catch on the horror evoked by the divorced woman down the street. You also ought to have one of the secretaries get pregnant and see what happened. A very praiseworthy show, despite the memories. And the clothes are gorgeous.
was growing up in a small southern town in the 50s and find the show pretty true to the times, keeping in mind that the city was another scene, the man vs woman politics is generally quite good, marriage and divorce true to the times, smoking everywhere by anyone totally accepted, sexist attitude true and accepted broadly, jokes true, the thing to do certainly was get married soon after college, have house, dinner, children, formal re: mint julips in special silver cups, wife looking good and organized, expected to be...husband only expected to be responsible for bringing home the bacon, however one must remember these people are in NY City and very educated at NE universities; however, styles and modes of behavior are really true to the times. Excellent and refreshing, not suprising that the writer is from Sopranoes, my Favorite. and so glad that this is on the schedule to give us another great intelligent well done program, of which there are few. The sutle messages play well, as in the Sopranoes. Brillliant and welcomed.
It was part of a job interview in those days to ask women applicants if they planned to marry anytime soon. If so, no job. Women could be fired if they did marry. Health insurance did not cover maternity care, if you were able to keep your job after getting pregnant, and it also applied to the husband's coverage of the wife.
I appreciate some of the details which make me squirm, such as no car seats for kids, smoking and drinking alcohol while pregnant, letting kids put plastic bags over their heads...
I'm glad there is a bohemian artist character, Midge, to counteract the middle class gloss of everyone else. This is also the era of the Beat Generation, and when I was in college in 1960, my girlfriends and I used to go to Greenwich Village to soak up the Beat ambience of Howl and On The Road. We would go to the bars and coffee houses dressed in kilts with black tights (called "Gams") and drink plonk while poets declaimed onstage.
As the career route was so restricted for women, it is true that marriage was often seen as the best way to achieve security.
On minor quibble to add to the list: I saw a stainless sanitary pad dispenser in the woment's bathroom. In those days, they were all white enamel, generally Kotex.
Regarding the sexist attitudes, a classified ad section from 1960 would have separate job listings - "Help wanted, Men" and "Help wanted, Women". This was standard and explicit.
For example, a former employer of mine was an alumnus of Arthur Andersen, the big CPA firm that was prosecuted in connection with Enron, etc. He had a yearbook from his time there in the early 1950s marking the firm's 50th anniversary. It had pictures of the partners, all white men. There was a section called "The Women of Arthur Andersen", which recognized some of the long-serving women of the firm. It began "While the firm does not employ women in a professional capacity, we wish to recognize . . ."
Companies' pay structures explicitly paid men about 30 - 40% more than women in the same position, if women could even get the same job.
This created two factors supporting traditional one-earner families. One was that women couldn't hope to buy a house or otherwise become financially secure on their earnings, making marriage a better bet in that area. The other was that it enabled men to have enough income to support a family, by shifting womens' earnings to them.
* * *
Regarding Pete showing up at Peggy's apartment in the pilot, I suspect they have a prior relationship, which is how he knew where she lived.
The Italian character is giving off subtle signals of being gay. He gives vague answers to questions about having a girlfriend ("Hey, I'm Italian. What do you think?"). At the strip club when the girls join them he agrees with one girl's comments about liking the place because it is smoky and filled with men.
In the third episode opening sequence Don Draper is approached on the train by an old army buddy, who calls him by a completely different name. Combined with his vagueness about living Upstate and not giving the guy his card in return, it looks like he's hiding something big. This may have triggered his bad behavior at the party later, not bringing home the cake from the bakery.
Maybe the real Draper was killed in action with most of his unit and this switched dog tags and assumed his identity, receiving his Purple Heart . . .
Regarding the sexist attitudes, a classified ad section from 1960 would have separate job listings - "Help wanted, Men" and "Help wanted, Women". This was standard and explicit.
For example, a former employer of mine was an alumnus of Arthur Andersen, the big CPA firm that was prosecuted in connection with Enron, etc. He had a yearbook from his time there in the early 1950s marking the firm's 50th anniversary. It had pictures of the partners, all white men. There was a section called "The Women of Arthur Andersen", which recognized some of the long-serving women of the firm. It began "While the firm does not employ women in a professional capacity, we wish to recognize . . ."
Companies' pay structures explicitly paid men about 30 - 40% more than women in the same position, if women could even get the same job.
This created two factors supporting traditional one-earner families. One was that women couldn't hope to buy a house or otherwise become financially secure on their earnings, making marriage a better bet in that area. The other was that it enabled men to have enough income to support a family, by shifting womens' earnings to them.
* * *
Regarding Pete showing up at Peggy's apartment in the pilot, I suspect they have a prior relationship, which is how he knew where she lived.
The Italian character is giving off subtle signals of being gay. He gives vague answers to questions about having a girlfriend ("Hey, I'm Italian. What do you think?"). At the strip club when the girls join them he agrees with one girl's comments about liking the place because it is smoky and filled with men.
In the third episode opening sequence Don Draper is approached on the train by an old army buddy, who calls him by a completely different name. Combined with his vagueness about living Upstate and not giving the guy his card in return, it looks like he's hiding something big. This may have triggered his bad behavior at the party later, not bringing home the cake from the bakery.
Maybe the real Draper was killed in action with most of his unit and this switched dog tags and assumed his identity, receiving his Purple Heart . . .
I love the show. Our hero seems to be ready for an affair with his client. A very good look at the Ad Biz as I knew it, and most of it captures the mores and mood of the time. Misic and photography super.
The main problem as I, an ad wife of the 50s and60s see it is the "admen" were really funny and quite good-looking...The jr. execs you have cast are not the handsome charmers that worked at JWalter Thompson, Leo Burnett,ete. Those guys were all GOR-JUS, very funny...OR at least, we thought, brilliant....I eventually divorced out of that life.....
The best show on television hands down! I listened to the interview on NPR and knew I had missed the first episode of a ground breaking series. The historical accuracy seems to be up for debate, however, my parents meet in NYC in the early 60’s and most of the socio-economic structure seems to be consistent with their experiences. From a personal perspective I would like to see the symbolic African-American placed in the show, because my father earned a masters degree in chemistry but no one would employ him in Boston so he moved to NYC. While I realize their where very few professional African-Americans they did exist.