Interesting.

I have a different direction with this..
What if Walt and Jessie became rival drug manufacturers?
If Walt does realize that Jessie is not bringing anything to the table, this could happen.
What if a war starts between them and they both recruit soldiers, this would totally confuse the DEA and would be a bizarre twist.

No... but I'm all for Jesse shooting Walt.

Then Walt could tell Skylar that the bullet hole was from a meteor

No, the bullet hole was from a science experiment with a small hadron collider rotating at extremely high velocity.. it opened up a micro blackhole in his chest..

Did someone mention a "Bizzare Twist"? I'll take one of those on the rocks Please!

I would hate to see Jessie eliminated in this series. Although he is mellowing out in Spa Land and appears not to be helping Walt, I think he is still vital to Walt and the series. Many fans love to see the bantering between Walt and Jessie that makes it comical at times, and in a sense Walt has learned a lot from Jessie in the past of how to begin to deal with the BlueSky they made. Losing this team of Walt and Jessie, would be a sad event in my opinion.

Hi Linda
I agree that it would be sad to loose Jesse from the show, and I too enjoy the interaction between Jesse and Walt. But that’s not relevant to the point I’m trying to make. What I’m talking about is purely from the point of what Walter would do in a real situation, after all Vince is attempting to paint a realistic picture of descending into the drug world …isn’t he ? Walt is becoming Heisenberg … becoming a drug lord and entering into the big times. Walt now has Saul to make contacts and solve problems with , he also has an experienced distributor in Gus . So why would Walt keep Jesse around? Jesse is a liability that takes half of his profits! Walt doesn’t need Jesse to cook, he doesn’t need Jesse to distribute and he does have to worry that Jesse will talk! If this was a real life situation I think Walt would eventually get rid of Jesse. So …. how will the writers keep Walt going down that dark path and at the same time justify / rationalize that Walt keeps Jesse around ?

To keep the show realistic and keep Walt going down the path he’s going , isn’t it logical that Walt will eventually kill Jesse ?

Vince is keeping it realistic by showing the feelings that are involved in their partnership. Realistically, going from both actions of the two characters, Walt WOULDN'T kill Jesse, because he in some way cares about him whether he likes it or not (him rescuing Jesse himself from the drug den shows that). They've made plenty of references to the family-type bond between the two, and you know how family are with one another--they stick with each other, even if one is a "liability", because they care for one another. Walt is turning into sort of a cold-blooded drug kin pin, yes, but oddly enough, as he's gotten more cold, his feelings for Jesse have grown.

So, instead of saying that realistically Walt wouldn't be keeping Jesse around--it's quite the opposite. It would be very out of the blue if Walt just capped Jesse for "taking half the profits" and "being a liability"--they've gone through a LOT together, and Walt knows that it's just Jesse's stupidity that causes him to be somewhat of a liability (that and being drugged up and a puppy to his girlfriend). Jesse doesn't really do anything negative to Walt out of spite, though.

What I'd like to see them explain though, is now why Walt isn't killing Jesse, but how Jesse gets back into the game. I don't think Walt would let Jesse anywhere near the drug business after what he just went through...so how are they going to write his character back into the meth world?

No, Walt can't kill Jesse, at least for a little while. First off, Jesse's gonna go home to be with mom and dad. They are evangelical christians with real guns around somewhere's and know how to shoot them. If they don't have them, they know where to get them from. All they need do is call on their congregation. Their congragation already knows about Jesse's crap. They've testified their troubles to them many time's. I think that's where the show should continue on. How the extreme evangelical churches are extreme to the max. That would cause quite a bit of drama. The First Assembly of God Church in Kenosha looks like a cement bunker from the ground up. Hold's 8000 people with no window's. They have all sorts of stuff in there. Interesting. I have never been in there personally, but from what I hear its very massive with lots of testifying prophets who speak in loads of tongue's.
Also the parking lot is full of trucks and suv's.

Good points easilyjaded , but if he doesn't get rid of him then what does he do with Jesse ? Is Walter going to be willing to give him half the profits just for helping him cook? Jesse's usefulness in Walt's drug dealing is dwindling rapidly. And if he doesn't get half the shares is Jesse trustworthy enough to keep quiet? I agree that Jesse’s and Walt bond has grown over the two seasons. But will that bond be important enough to Walter if he feels Jesse’s mouth threatens his family’s lifestyle?

With the introduction of Gus and Saul , and Jesse’s breakdown, it will be interesting to see what Jesse’s role with be in the evolving drug world of Heisenberg.

Bottom line for me … I would be very sad to see the interaction between Walter and Jesse go …. But at the same time I’d hate even more if the relationship started not to ring true.

Cheers points easilyjaded … thx for giving me some things to think about !

Wow tweeders1 now that's what I would call thinking outside of the box !

Here is a possible scenario. Walt has to make a choice, either take a chance on Jesse again or cut Jesse loose for good. Walt being the Father figure now for Jesse will have a sit down with Jesse after Jesse is released from Rehab and Walt and Jesse will have that time honored Father Son talk. Walt will show Jesse 2 doors and Jesse will have to decide which door to pass through. Behind one door is a future using drugs to obtain Wealth and a way to eventually make a better life through this wealth. There is a condition with this choice, Jesse must give up using drugs. Behind the other door is a future of using these drugs for a cheap high that might eventually end up killing him. He will put this choice to Jesse and make him think about it and think about it hard, like his life depends on it, and then Walt reminds Jesse of what happened to Jane. If Jesse makes the correct choice Walt will have his answer whether or not to Keep Jesse around.

Seriously? Who will Walt's pawn be? If Walt kills Jesse he no longer has the loyal pawn, who will he share his horrible dark secrets with...Skylar is gone and will not understand, Walt jr. is too much of a good guy and will be crushed and mutated by the truth...he'd have no one to turn to. Plus, Jesse is a base character, without "that guy" you lose a demographic of your audience and a dynamic catalyst that isn't covered with any other character.

Sassifrass - You have your answer to Walt's dilemma, Jesse will eventually choose to walk through the correct door. Jesse's character will survive and everyone will rejoice. There will be a future for Jesse, at least through Season 3.

I like zia's scenerio best......LOL

I go with R.W's point of view. I dont think Walt is going to cut Jessie off for good, but as R.W. states, he will try to be that father figure to Jessie again and allow Jessie to make his own decision. Good point...R.W. !! Walt still has a good side when it comes to guiding Jessie, even when he is chewing Jessie out for making mistakes such as in making the meth. It's that "teacher "mode of correcting his student to stop and think what he is doing before he acts. Good or bad, Walt is always guiding Jessie along the way.

Possibly down the road, Jessie will cut himself free of the drugs, and leave Walt, but I don't see Jessie going back to Mom and Dad to become a devote bible thumping Christian. Jessie might become spiritual and have an awareness of his past deviant behavior but not to the extreme of attending church on Sunday with Mom and Dad.

The danger with Jessie is whether he will turn Walt in, but then that would implicate himself with Walt too, so that scenario is out. I am trying to think what possible motive Jessie would have killing off Walt or Walt killing off Jessie and the only reason I can forsee now is some type of extreme betrayal. In the back of my mind, I still fear that Jessie will find out about Walt allowing Jane to die...and then, that might be the reason to go after Walt since Jessie was so blinded to Jane and not seeing the real con-artist Jane was. Jessie will not understand the motive of why Walt allowed her to die.

Silent, the problem with Walt and Jessie becoming rivals in the drug world is Walt makes better BlueSky and Jessie is incapable of making the purest meth as Walt...at least not presently. If Walt teaches him the steps and Jessie learns the method..okay. Gus will not allow Jessie to be a obstacle to him and Walt, so Gus might get rid of Jessie if he tries to compete with them. Gus had a problem with Jessie anyway and told Walt to tone Jessie down or find a better partner that make sound moves and stayed out of the limelight in order to do business with Gus.

Or Jessie joins the Mexican cartel against Walt..which is really far fetched.

jamm54 - I like zia's scenario too. Would that Meteor that hits Walt be similar to the one that landed in Siberia in 1901, it was called Tunguska or something like that?

Insane in the Membrane - - - Insane in the brain - - - Insane in the Membrane - - - Insane in the brain - - - Insane in the Membrane - - - Insane in the brain - - - Uh, um, sorry about that, just listening to a little Cypress Hill. Have Jury duty in Compton again today, so I need to get in the proper frame of mind...

The killing off of Jesse would serve many purposes ; symbolize Walt moving on from Jesse’s small league onto the big league, indicate how much Walt is changing into Heisenberg , be quite an effective dramatic vehicle to shock the audience.
HOW / WHY ?
Through the counselling and the drying out process Jesse begins to have dreams and flashbacks of the night Jane died. Jesse eventually begins to suspect that Walt was there that night. But when Jesse approaches Walt , Walter is able to convince him that these are false images. But then , during a meeting between Walt , Saul and Jesse, Saul says something that makes Jesse realize that Saul was contacted by Walter, concerning the Jane’s death, before Jesse had called Walter about it. Hence Jesse becomes convinced that Walter is involved.
Once convinced of Walt’s involvement Jesse contacts Donald and arranges a meeting to talk to him about how his “associate” was involved in Jane’s death. Unfortunately for Jesse, Walt and Donald have become friends. Before the meeting occurs between Jesse and Donald, Donald tells Walt about how he’s going to have a talk with his dead daughter’s boyfriend…. And what that meeting will be about.
Before that meeting can occur Walt has Jesse goto the Winnebago for …”something” … while Jesse is in the Winnebago it explodes. When the explosion is investigated it is blamed on the Winnebago being a Meth lab. Though the audience never see’s Walter rig the explosion there are clues in his behaviour that insinuates that he blew it up on purpose. …. Or … maybe Jesse staged it to get away ??? … maybe Jesse would re-appear in season 4 ?

I may be wrong about this, but isn't the meth lab still in Jesse's RV, which is being stored at Clovis'? Doesn't Walt need Jesse simply for the fact that he has the equipment? And Jesse also helps Walt cook. If it wasn't for him, Walt couldn't have cooked up those 38 pounds of Blue Sky in the desert.

Linda - I just seen your comment.
Jessie was shown more than once though, the proper way to cook.

Wouldn't it be a bizarre twist, if they were competing against each other and Walt starts messing up because he becomes an Alcoholic and Jessie starts producing better product?

But Jessie keeps screwing the formula that Walt has shown him. Jessie should have paid more attention in Walt's class!

Hi James26
So let's look at what Walt got out of Jesse for almost 1/2 million dollars. Walt got a cooking assistant for 2 days and the use of a Winnebago worth $7800 and glassware worth a few hundred. If we only look at the math Jesse was a bad investment for the "big cook" . If Walt had cooked by himself it might of taken an extra day .... and Walt would have to spend about $10,000 for new cooking facilities and equipment ! So when only looking at the math Jesse is extremely expensive to have around.

By the way ...
One of the first questions Gus asks Walter is why he has Jesse for a partner . Walt's reasons is because "I can trust him and he does what I say ". Are either of these reason's still valid ? Can Walter still trust Jesse ? After the big breakdown will Jesse still do what Walt says ? And even if Jesse does do what Walt says what orders will Walter have to give him .... after all Walt's got Gus and Saul now.

Jesse had already told Walt's secrets once maybe he'll do it again ! Does what he told ? He made Walt miss the birth of his child because he was to stoned to make the drop !

Conclusion
Is Jesse cost effective ..... NO
Does Jesse keep Walt's secrets ? .... NO
Has Jesse been reliable ? ..... NO
Does Walter have a Bond with Jesse ? YES

Hmmmmm I wonder if one YES will be enough for Hiesenberg ??

Yessir, Nimrod, you do have a good debate going here..LOL!

I am still rah rahing for the kid Jessie because I like Jessie and hate to see him gone in the series. I am afraid your theory will pan out because Walt will Heisenberg himself more and more in the future and Heisenberg doesn't need added baggage like Jessie around, specially since Jessie is in Spa Land and not worth 2 cents to Walt. So in Season 3, Walt might cut his losses with Jessie and move on and leave Jessie behind in the dust for him to rehab himself. Hiesenberg is NOT the father figure, to rehab Jessie back to a normal state of mind. Walt's alter ego Heisenberg monster will increase his need for greed, power, and selfish gratification at any cost to those around him. I believe Vince is really going prove to us just how Breaking Bad Walter will become in Season 3. What happens to Jessie ???....total speculation of many theories.

Hi Lindas555
LOL thx for the feedback. Yes I would miss Jessie as well . I'm just struggling with what role he will play in Walt's life as he evolves into Heisenberg! For Walter to truly move into a darker and darker place I think it will be necessary for him to let go of some parts of his current life, and that may include his family and Jesse.
... Vince certainly has his worked cut out for him either way ;-)

Cheers
Nimrod1313

Jesse should shoot Walt! Afterall Walt's gotten Jesse into a lot more breaking bad situation's than where he was before. Will Jesse shoot Walt? Not intentionally. Jesse's not as psycho pridefull as Walt. Jesse just doesn't have it in him to be that mean. He's a follower, not a leader. Also he's just not that smart. Walt has alway's had the smarts. I wonder what actually happened between him and Gretchen. Why did they break up? Walt does have quite the mean streak. If he didn't he'd really care about the consequences of his cooking meth and selling it. I don't think Walt will kill Jesse, though he could, but if he did, who could he really talk to? Gus? Gus has been in the game alot longer and doesn't talk to anyone. He know's Walt's a loose cannon to begin with. I'm sure he know's or has figured Walt out, unlike the rest of us. Walt can never tell Skylar the truth, doubt he ever has told her the truth about his feelings. There's never been that kind of connection between the two of them. Walt's only true connection to humanity is Jesse.
Walt needs Jesse alot more than Jesse needs Walt. But who know's? Walts been doing a pretty good job of killing people and reconciling it so far.
Walt's a latent sociopath afterall.

So tweeders1 sees Walt as a sociopath .... sounds like thats another person that thinks Walt's bond with Jesse may not be strong enough to keep Jesse safe! That makes me wonder if Walt hasn't had to sacrifice for loved ones in the past , which prevent his success, and maybe he won't let that happen again ... bond or no bond.

The one person that Walt doesn't talk about at all is his mother and this relationship must have some bearing on Walt's behavior when growing up. Vince briefly brings in a couple of lines that Walt says about her, but I am not sure if these lines really pertain to how he feels about her, but only to be part of the lie he tells Skyler. (Telling Sklyer he is visiting his mother when in actuality, Walt and Jessie are making meth). Walt does not have any kind words about his mother. I don't exactly remember the words he tells Skyler, but I do remember the tone of how Walt is critical of his mother. Anyone have thoughts on his relationship of his mother?

Another questions comes to mind...Walt's family doesn't have a family pet, dog, cat, bird, salamander..etc. Do you find this to be strange? And there are hardly any animals in this series, other than the bug Jessie tries not to squish while standing and waiting on the corner in one episode.

tweeders....a socipath has no remorse, guilt or shame of their actions and Walt, so far, hasn't gone to that extreme of not having any feelings for others. He does have feelings for Jessie and did have tears when he allowed Jane to die. He has shown remorse, knowing what he did, but had to carry on with his plans regardless of how he felt. It was necessary to provide for his cancer treatments and keep Skyler, Walt Jr. and Holly from finanical ruin, if he died. But, in Season 3, Walt's sense of remorse might change and surprise us as he gets deeper into a darker side of himself.

Hey Linda and Nimrod, that's why I said Latent sociopath. I'm not saying that he always was a sociopath, but with each murder he gets closer and closer to reconciling his actions. His crying time gets less and less. When he watched Jane die he went from concern, to fear, to curiosity, to concern, to grokking what it would mean if she lived, to looking at Jesse, to knowing it would be better for him if she died, to wonderment at watching her die. He never tried to help her even if he did shed a tear or two as to what he'd just allowed to happen. Then he got the hell out of there and proceeded with what he thought was best for him. He called his lawyer to help clean up the situation. All within a matter of seconds. Possibly a minute or two at most. I'd have to go and watch it again. I by no means am a psycholigist, but you have to admit that you would never allow that to happen. Even if you were cooking meth or crack. Of course you and I wouldn't resort to cooking meth or crack, so we wouldn't know what that situation is. I'd grow pot in a heartbeat though. As far as I know, no one's ever died of a pot overdose, nor vomited because of it. Quite the opposite with the munchies involved. I know all too well that I'm not bulimic. I'm wondering if cancer is in Walts brain and that's what's making him become so callous. There are so many chemical differences with cancer and many other diseases that affect the brain. Who knows. Also Walts PRIDE is sociopathic. Why would anyone who's a school teacher who has resources, such as rich friends, family, connection's like he does, just go to cooking meth as a money getter unless they are a good part sociopathic? Then, when he's got enough money to provide for his kin, continue on? What other conclusion can one come too? Walt is a sociopath due to pride.

oops...missed the "latent" in your posting..sorry.

what is grokking?

While I agree with most of your posting, I have a problem with the "pride" issue you bring up. Walt wouldn't go to his rich friends, i.e. Gretchen and her husband(what is his name...can't remember), because he would have to admit to Gretchen's betrayal to Walt and Walt isn't going to allow that to happen. He wouldn't ask money from them for even his cancer treatments. Family connections wouldn't have paid his medical bills at that large amount of money needed.

Walt made the Meth, because he had the talent, the knowledge and Jessie as a resource to distribute what Meth they made without any help from his family and friends..they wouldn't ever have understood his methods. Walt had the genius of Chemistry that could be utilized for his dilemma.

I do agree with you on the issue of Walt becoming less and less sympathtic to others as his need to make more Meth. Walt has to account for making more Meth, even when his cancer has subsided and doesn't have immediate need of large sums of money....he has to jusify in his mind why he continues to cook and overlook cold-heartedly the pain of others around him. And yes, you do have a good point, his tears are less as the episodes continue. Do you suppose this is what Vince is saying from his interview the audience will see more of the darker side of Walt in coming epsiodes?

The more we talk about Walt in this thread the more I start to wonder if Walt might have an attention disorder known as "rescuer" . With this disorder people are only happy when they are able to rescue others.

The rescuer: particularly common in family situations, he's the one who will dash in and "rescue" people whenever the moment is opportune - to himself, that is. He then gains gratification from basking in the glory of her humanitarian actions. He will prey on any person suffering misfortune, infirmity, illness, injury, or anyone who has a vulnerability. The act of rescue and thus the opportunities for gaining attention can be enhanced if others are excluded from the act of rescue; this helps create a dependency relationship between the rescuer and rescued which can be exploited for further acts of rescue (and attention) later. When not in rescue mode, the rescuer may be resentful, perhaps even contemptuous, of the person he is rescuing.
source : http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/attent.htm
Now lets look at Walt ...
Walt chose a carrier where he could rescue/teach young impressionable people each day. He did not take a career that involved working with peers (i.e. Grey Matter) . Walt probably justified this choice by feeling he needed to be around for Walt Jr. (i.e. rescue mode again). You can see his resentment for Walt Jr. when he wants to be called Flynn as this indicates that he's becoming independent.
Look at his strained relationship with Hank (i.e. fight at poolside ) until Hank is in bed super depressed then Walt is there rescuing him.
Walt also loves to rescue Jesse and will fight anyone that gets in his way (i.e. Kill Jane).
Look at Walt when he doesn't need to make more money ... rescue his family by going over board with household repairs !
So if Walt is a rescuer then he may not really have a true bond with Jesse. Jesse is just someone that needs to be rescued. But what happens when Jesse gets stronger and doesn't need rescuing ?? "When not in rescue mode, the rescuer may be resentful, perhaps even contemptuous, of the person he is rescuing. " In other words Walt's bond may turn to contempt... plus Walt can't trust or need Jesse ...hmmm Jesse's day's may be numbered.

Nimrod, are you referring to Munchausen Syndrome to what you call a "rescuer" disorder??

You might have some really good points on the "rescuer" disorder, Nimrod. Usually Munchausen Syndrome deals with mothers and their children, but I am not sure if it refers to grown men rescuing other young adults or adults. Have to look it up in the DSMR! LOL!! I am more inclined to think Walt is trying to justify his past mistakes and making Meth, because he feels guilty over what he has caused and created....back to my earlier belief of "cause and effect". But as you have phrased it....Walt seems to be the "rescuer".

Maybe I read too much into Walt almost unconsciously calling Jesse "son" when he was rescuing him from the drug den, but I felt it signaled a beginning of Walt starting to...well..."break good." He's done a lot of horrible things since starting his cooking business and we've watched him both take pride in them and hate himself for them, but I think if he were to kill anyone in his family - or Jesse, with whom he seems to have developed a near familial bond- I don't think he could live with himself. It would be a very dramatic development, but it could make the show SO dark it would be painful to watch.

Hi Rockmama
I don't think we're going to see Walter "break good" in season 3. In fact I think season 3 is going to be much darker. Heres what Vince G. says in the video Inside Breaking Bad: A Look Ahead " We have alot more in store in Season 3. Walt is heading down a bad path and it's only going to get worse .... nothing in this show ends up having good consequences"

Well what do you think Rockmama ? To me it sounds like Vince has got Walter going even deeper and darker into Breaking Bad.

Well, it's Walt's more human moments that stand out in my mind:

I remember the scene where he was on the bed with the new baby, stroking her back and looking at her so adoringly. And that one tear when Jane died. And, again, that moment when he called Jesse "son," which was just so unexpected and moving.

The theme I keep finding in the show is the tension between good and evil that we all have inside us. So I don't think we'll see Walt turn into a COMPLETE monster.

But whatever happens, I hope they don't kill off Jesse. As we know, that character was only supposed to last one season, but Aaron Paul's acting is just so damn good, they kept him around. I get the feeling Paul's talent was the inspiration for making Jesse a more sympathetic character than had been envisioned originally, and that has really added to the depth of the show.

I guess I can see the possibility of Walt deciding he has to kill Jesse, but if that happens...I hope Jesse figures it out and goes on the run! Come to think of it, that might make a pretty good storyline.

Hello rockmama

That’s interesting information … I did not realize the Jesse was only supposed to last one season. So from the very beginning the writer’s did not intend to keep him around ! That makes me even wonder more if they won’t be looking for a way of eliminating Jesse by the end of season 3.
I agree that the contrast and range of Walt’s personality is interesting. Though I’m not sure I’d label Walter shedding one tear while watching Jane die one of his more “human moments”. I’ve had friends take the death of a family pet harder than that .
For me the question of loosing Jesse comes down to this… Do we want BrBa to be a dark version of “The Odd Couple” or is this show going to truly about a good man descending into the pits of the dark side ?

You're asking provocative questions, Nimrod313. It's forcing me to ask myself - If it came down to a choice between saving Jesse or sacrificing the artistic integrity of the show, which would I choose? Of course that's a big "IF." I think the story could go in any of a multitude of directions, including some that don't include the death of Jesse Pinkman.

But this isn't, after all, a "Choose Your Own Adventure, " where the viewer decides the next move. It's one's man's uncompromising vision, and that's why we love it.

So...if forced to choose, I'll always come down on the side of artistic integrity.

Wow, lots can happen when one doesn't show up around here. Linda, grokking is a reference to the great Sci Fi writer Robert Heinlien. I think that its from the Lazurus Long series. Its been decade's since I've read them. My dad presented them to us when me and my sister were infants 45 years ago. He was a master reader. When other kids were getting the usual bedtime storie's we were getting chapter's of Robert Heinlien, Kurt Vonnegut, Ursula Leguin, and comic books of Flash Gordon. We also got a wee bit of Historical novels like Hawaii. My dad may never have graduated jr high, but he sure did read alot. So what grokking means, is taking it all in, brain wise, physically, feeling it all before making comment. Its understanding through your cellular being. That's the closest that I can explain it. Take's walking a mile in someone's shoe's to a different quarky dimemsion. Particularely with Lazurus, he wound up having sex with himself and his cloned twin redheaded daughters eventually in very many dimentions. He was pure sci fi. Perhaps the purest relatable sci fi writer ever. Ursula gets into fantacy, Kurt gets into funny things fucked up things, Frank Herbert is total fanticy, but Robert keeps things real as a possibility. Many feminists have said that he's a pervert, I disagree. He truly writes from science. He's not a fanticist. Read his books. Some may say they're misogynist. They're not as far as I'm concernd. They're just a guy who wants to be everything he can be on whatever time grokking thing he can dream of. And he wrote it.
I consider him the Shakespere of Sci Fi not fantacy. But to get back to Walt. He's a PRIDE sociopath. All of you want to think he's not.
Who amoungst us would think that the first thing to do when diagnosed with death, to go out and find someone to open a meth lab? Chem teacher or not.
Couldn't he have come up with some better way of hydroponics? Some better way of making a fan, or engine work? NO, Walt went with the quickest way of making a buck. So he know's his skills in chemistry, he know's how many of his non-appreciative students will get immediatly addicited and have access to his stuff. He does not relate to his students. If he did, he would not have Jesse under his belt. If he were a "GREAT TEACHER" of chemistry, he would have made it way more interesting for the kids in his class. When you look at the classes that he's teaching, its not the one's who can do on their own. They're bored, and only attending because they have to be there. He resents his class for not being more interested. So since they don't care about him, he care's nothing about them. He's convinced that either they'll get into a school from their parents, whether they deserve it or not, or they are there just to get a grade. Other than the blond kid beggin for a grade, have we ever seen Walt being inspired by a chem kid who wants to be in his class? NO! Walt, can't even inspire his own kid. Walt's just crusin through this teaching thing. We'll, I got my cap in the mail today! I'm happy!
Tweeds

Hello rockmama

Well put , I like the way you think. Yes , I too hope that Vince and the crew continue to favor artistic integrity over just making popular decisions . I also agree that the viewer doesn’t get to decide the next move. But I do think it’s interesting , as viewers, to ask ourselves if we want this show to keep pushing the limits , no matter where that takes us. I certainly know I would tire of Walt and Jesse having the same conflicts over Jesse’s inabilities and Walt’s demands. So where does this relationship travel to if it’s to push the plot and the envelope at the same time ? Would Jesse’s Breaking Good, or continuing as Walt’s side kick, provide us with that “hit” of unexpected epiphanies ? I keep thinking about what direction Vince has Walt going , as well as how Vince likes to surprise us with gritty swaths of reality , and wonder what else can be done with Jesse that would have a bigger impact .

Also, my dad was kicked out of middle school because he was left handed, of which he got his hands thwacked, Ergo he was stupid. I think I wrote this one before. But, this is where we can make it all better, write your congressmen. We have a great stimulus package to promote more children to teach, read not only books. Music, chemistry and math. Learning is the only way to advance. Cooking good food, brings so much to light!
Tweeds

Hello Tweeders1

After reading your discussion on Walt being a sociopath I did some reading about it on Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder And from the little I read I don’t think I could have the empathy I’ve had for Walt if he fit the criteria of a sociopath. Wikipedia states that this malady is ” a pervasive pattern of disregard for, and violation of, the rights of others that begins in childhood or early adolescence and continues into adulthood” Instead I see Walt as a person that has been sacrificing his needs for others his entire life. Then when he was faced with his own mortality all those years of self-sacrifice and rescuing weren’t enough. Through cooking Meth he thought he’d found a way to vent his anger and rescue his family one more time with the throwing of the same stone. Unfortunately the cracking of that door has spiraled Walter into an ever increasing dark place. This isn’t a person that’s been overtly bad from childhood , this is a person that we have empathy for because he’s tried to do right … but just can’t take it anymore.

In essence I think we both agree that Walt’s gotten to a point where he would be capable of killing Jesse … but who he’s been to get there is where we seem to differ in opinion.

Tweeds...Clearly, Walt knows his Chemistry and seems to be a good teacher. How many people LOVE taking Chemistry in High School, raise your hand.!! Chemistry is on the low end of the scale of subjects high school students really love to take and is a reguired subject to get that diploma. The only thing students are truly interested in is their cellphones and gamers ....many students barely make the grades to pass unless they are a geek. Walt knows this problem and still works at teaching them basic Chemistry...he is not looking for any metals or awards, just trying to teach and getting them to apply themselves in his class. I have no doubt Walt is a good teacher.

Walt made Meth in the beginning because he had the knowledge, the lab equipment and Jessie, a distributor. A product that sells fast, you don't report your earnings to the IRS and can make quick money. Inventions take time, a patent and a market to sell that product. Meth is a leading drug that has a market value far greater than an invention. Walt did take the easier way out and produce Meth, but then that was the quandary Walt had to face, make Meth, provide for his Cancer treatments and take care of his family or suffer financial ruin and die without affording any cancer treatments. This is the catalyst for the series..how Walt had to make tough decisions down a darker path than he had ever walked before.

I still would like to hear more of Walt's mother and his childhood, because it would give us an understanding of where Walt has come from.

I am hoping Vince really thinks Season 3 thoroughly and wisely. This Season is the tell all of just how good his writing and imagination will reign.

We KNOW Vince will take Walt down a deeper road and this is PREDICTABLE. Season 3 will be a real test of just how good Vince and his writing staff is, to make all our predictions wrong and arrive at a better solution that none of us would even think of writing into the script. I have faith that Vince will, indeed, show us all up and produce something out of the ordinary, a Season that surpasses the last two seasons. Keeping my fingers crossed..

Nimrod...I have also read Vince telling in his interview that Walt will go down a darker path, but I am hoping Vince will still make room for us to sympathize with his actions of WHY he chooses a darker path. To show Walt getting worse, and becoming a monster for NO reason, is BORING, BORING AND PREDICTABLE. I would hope Vince has the integrity of his writing to challenge the audience and giving some pretty good reasons why Walt is going down the hell road of being rotten to the core.

I’ve got to agree with Lindas555. I think Walt is driven to help/teach others. To the point that it is a “rescuer disorder”. He needs that rush of feeling superior to others and does so by rescuing people when they need help. But Walt has difficulty being on the receiving end of help. Walt’s the happiest when he provides big money for his family , being a good teacher (when appreciated for it) , talking Hank through depression , rescuing Jesse from sever depression from Jane’s death. But he can be resentful of the same people when they don’t need his help … or they try to help him ; When his family raise money for his treatments, his students don’t care what he’s teaching, when Hank steals the limelight with his bravado, when Jesse sides with Jane. I wonder if Walt generally forms real bonds with people or are they usually just attractions to people in need of rescue ? If Walt needs to always be the rescuer and resents people that are in the position to rescue him I can see how the “cancer thing” could put Walt right over the edge ! And if Jesse does not need to be rescued or becomes a roadblock that just might push Walt over another edge i.e. Murder!

So in short I think Walt has had a “rescue disorder” …

“The act of rescue and thus the opportunities for gaining attention can be enhanced if others are excluded from the act of rescue; this helps create a dependency relationship between the rescuer and rescued which can be exploited for further acts of rescue (and attention) later. When not in rescue mode, the rescuer may be resentful, perhaps even contemptuous, of the person he is rescuing.
source : http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/attent.htm

And I think needing to be rescued has pushed Walt over the edge to the point that he is now taking on sociopath behaviour patterns as Heisenberg i.e. …

1. Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
2. Deceitfulness, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
3. Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead;
4. Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
5. Reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
6. Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
7. Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder

HI Linda In one of your last posts you said “To show Walt getting worse, and becoming a monster for NO reason, is BORING, BORING AND PREDICTABLE” Well I think that Vince has shown Walt becoming a monster without it being boring or predictable. After all in the last season we watched Walt let Jane die while shedding only one tear and then in the next scene home playing with his baby. Hmmm if you saw that on the evening news you’d think a person that could do that was pretty monstrous wouldn’t you ? Yet we didn’t find that scene boring or predictable. If Vince can maintain our sympathy for Walt after that what else will the viewers endure and find … interesting ?

Come on Linda … “Predictable … Boring” !! Haven’t you watched the interviews with Vince ? This is a writer that would love to create a scene in which he shocks the audience as Felix Ungar stages a Meth Lab accident in which Oscar Madison get’s blown to kingdom come !

Nimrod...I do see your point of the "rescuer" in Walt..agree. Yes..still would like to hear more of Walt's childhood background and his relationship with his parents...that might give the audience an understanding of what Walt is all about.

The temptation for Vince to eliminate Jessie is a great one, BUT.....what I felt made the series in the begining was the comrade of Walt and Jessie in difficult situations and how they manage to get out of their dilemmas in one piece...hilarious at times. Jessie and Walt is the series. It's the ping pong of Walt vs. Jessie, the teacher vs. student, the dad vs son, the friend vs. friend, the partner vs. partner, these modes of Jessie and Walt add the flavor to the series.Taking Jessie out, and leaving Walt to his own dark demise, will be another ordinary series without substance. Its difficult to find the appropriate characters and make them work in a script and if Jessie is eliminated, then Vince had better find someone extra extra ordinary to take Jessie's shoes in this series...because the audience is ALWAYS wanting Jessie back or someone similar to his character. Personally, Jessie is needed in this series and a bad mistake to wipe his characterization.

Possibly, Jessie could be faded out for a time period, like rehab in Spa Land while Walt becomes more of a monster, and then bring Jessie back in at a given time. Now the ping pong is good rehab Jessie vs bad Walt...a reversal of what we saw in the beginning..bad druggie Jessie vs. good teacher Walt.

whoa..Nimrod..the Odd Couple blowing up??..LOL LOL That is funny.

Nimrod...
I felt the scene with Jane was a test of Walt's humanness because he knew what he had to do with Jane, in order to save Jessie. Walt knew what Jane was all about and she would have destroyed Jessie. This was a moment, Walt had to make quick decisions for helping Jessie and he made the decision to let Jane die without helping her. What will be interesting is Walt's reaction to finding out the man he talked at the bar, Jane's father, and the connection with Jane...now that is the reaction I want to see. Will he be cold about it or show remorse for allowing her to die, even though he did it for Jessie's own well being.

Nimrod
Let me rephrase my posting. For Vince to make Walt a monster without reason, and becoming a Heisenberg for the entire Season 3 could be predictable and boring. We know Vince will make Walt a bad person, but to just show that version of Walt as Heisenberg without any humanness, wouldn't you think that is the next step most people would believe happen to Walt? To what degree is Vince going to trash Walt's humanness that many movies and films already do to their characterizations and become a dime a dozen of the "same old, same old". What made this series a hit is it's unpredictability of a average man faced with hardship and moral decisions testing his good side and his bad side of himself. I still want to see Walt test the good side too, and trying to redeem himself in some way down the road so the devil didnt take all of his soul.

Response to Linda555 July 7, 2009 12:51 AM
WALT’S MOTHER
Yes I think that Walt’s mother should be involved in at least one episode of season 3. After all the mother does know that Walt has cancer , so how would Vince explain her not visiting Walter at least once ? It is obvious that there is some interesting dynamics between Skyler and Walt’s mother . I think the Walt’s mother may blame Skyler for Walt not being the success she had planned him to be. She might also blame Skyler for giving her a defective grandchild ( pls note that view is hers and NOT mine).
WALT – JESSE COMRADSHIP
Well Linda , I must say , I think your description of Walt’s and Jesse’s relationship is quite accurate . I’m also quite sure I’ve heard very similar synopsis for Bing & Bob, Lucy & Dezi and Felix & Oscar. In other words Vince has given us the typical “buddy formula”. If Vince keeps the same formula going in season 3 maybe the series should be renamed “On the Road to ABQ” or “Walter knows best” … hmmm or how about “Happy Daze” !? But I don’t believe that’s what Vince want’s the show to be about. In his interviews he doesn’t talk about Jesse and Walt’s journey , he talks about Walt’s passage into the dark side. To me that sounds like Jesse is a wrung in a ladder and as such will be replaced with new people and new conflicts. The passing of Jesse is not “leaving Walt to his own dark demise” it’s Walt becoming involved in a new phase of his evolution with new people. Vince wouldn’t need to find someone extra extra ordinary to take Jessie’s shoes, since Jesse isn’t being replaced , instead Jesse is being left behind as Walt moves on.
So to me the question to be answered is will Jesse’s departure be with a bang or a whimper ? In other words will Jesse “Break Good” or will he meet an unfortunate accident.

Response to Linda555 July 7, 2009 1:02 AM
Linda said ” I felt the scene with Jane was a test of Walt's humanness because he knew what he had to do with Jane “

So Linda … I assume you mean “humanness” in a good way ? Are you indicating that Walt did a good thing by letting Jane die ? If that’s true then, if Walt feels Jesse becomes a liability to him and hence a threat to his livelihood and looking after his family he can kill Jesse too ? Isn’t the same thing ? He sees Jane threaten Jesse’s well being so kill Jane. He sees Jesse threaten the well being of his family so kill Jesse !?
In general I question Walt’s “humanness” in his reaction to murder. Though I don’t think he takes any pleasure in it I also don’t think he looses any sleep over it either, literally as well as figuratively. Look at Hanks “problems” after shoot one bad-ass drug dealer in self-defense, he’s messed up ! And in interviews with Vince he states that anyone would be messed up by killing someone. HOWEVER , look at Walter, he’s killed a drug dealer in season 1, blown up a club house , sent Jesse out with a gun to “take care of it” , attempted to murder Tuco and sat by and watched Jane die. But does Walter demonstrate any physiological trauma from all this ? Walter has stated very clearly that since being diagnosed with cancer he sleeps very soundly ( stated while giving Hank the pep talk ). This to me sounds more like someone evolving into something quite inhuman.

Summary: So if “the scene with Jane was a test of Walt's humanness” I would say Walt failed. That scene actually demonstrated how Walt is slowly slipping away and loosing his “humanness”. Even the writers of the show describe the act in selfish terms in that Walt was eliminating the competition from the triangle.

Response to Linda555 July 7, 2009 1:17 AM
Linda said ” For Vince to make Walt a monster without reason, and becoming a Heisenberg for the entire Season 3 could be predictable and boring. “

I agree that does sound pretty boring, thank heavens that’s not the only alternative to loosing Jesse! Walt could bit-by-bit over the season loose the bond with Jesse with things coming to a head in episode 13 with Jesse’s demise. Also during the season we see the yin/yang between Walt and his splintering family life. His partnerships with new , higher class criminals like Gus and Saul. Also , as Walt becomes a higher profile criminal we’d see an escalation of the cat-mouse game with Hank. We’d also start to understand Walt’s evolution by bringing his mother into the mix. How could this be boring or predictable ? Yet Jesse could be killed in this scenario.

Linda said ” To what degree is Vince going to trash Walt's humanness that many movies and films already do to their characterizations and become a dime a dozen of the "same old, same old". “

Hmmm when I think of movies that are the “same old, same old” I think of the movies in which the main character is either portrayed as evil or good and then never changes. Vince moving Walt from his humanness is in not doing that at all . Vince is showing the slippery slope between good in evil within us all . Quite frankly I’d be interested in knowing what movies you’ve seen the “same old, same old” that demonstrates this type of transformation !

Linda said ” What made this series a hit is it's unpredictability of a average man faced with hardship and moral decisions testing his good side and his bad side of himself. I still want to see Walt test the good side too, and trying to redeem himself in some way down the road so the devil didnt take all of his soul. “

I totally agree ! Very well put ! And Vince can still achieve all that with Walter even if Jesse is murdered. In wouldn’t it be amazing if Vince could write well enough to make us feel that connection to Walter after the death of Jesse … now that’s pushing the envelope !

I think Walt and Jesse will move in together after Walt's wife kicks him out. They'll be the perfect odd couple. Walt will take him in because he cares for him and will tie him to a bed to temporarily rid him of drug addition, and due to their shared experiences, will realize Jesse is his only true friend who he can be completely honest with. Sure, they'll argue over messiness and on & off drug use in the household, but ultimately Walt will be defending Jesse from the likes of Gus and Saul who are predators. Gus and Saul will constantly question the importance of Jesse. But their friendship is something that only Walt & Jesse will understand. Another funny spin-off from this should be that Hank should visit regularly without notice, and Jesse has to hide while Walt tries to hide his mess and keep up the facade that he's living "alone." Jesse will probably be made to park his car down the street and he'll keep breaking the rules by parking in the driveway where Hank can see it and get phony explanations for from Walt.

I hope Walt quits his teaching job because there's nothing for him there anymore now that his wife wants him out. The fact that he's a teacher, teaching boring classes has been well and truly established and the writers no longer need to slow down the show's pace by filming in the classroom which is painful to watch. Maybe he'll even sweet talk his way into a job with Gretchen & her husband and then sneakily ruin them.

Walt stood over Jane while she choked because he knew first hand that she was toxic to his and Jesse's operation. She black mailed Walt and he wasn't going to let her live as a result and treated her like a mere speed bump, even though he knew it was wrong. But him not intervening resulted in two planes colliding. He effectively cost the lives of hundreds of people without even realizing. Jane's Dad shouldn't be written out yet either. I think he'll blame Jesse for his daughter's death and the little accident at work. It would be good for him to consider taking Jesse's life... Only to realize in the process the extent of Jesse's & Walt's drug involvement. He should then try and sabotage it and then be willing to go to the police. We'll see what unfolds.

I'd also like to see Walt & Jesse find out about Skyler and Ted having a rekindled affair. Then Jesse should plant Meth in his office, with Walt anonymously notifying the police, who will also in turn have his tax evasion made public knowledge.

A great twist would be for Walt to anonymously tip off Hank's DEA team about rival drug dealers and have them locked up so he gains supreme control. Once he learns more about Gus's operation, he could ultimately bring him down with a detailed letter sent to the DEA.

Hello Brett Hmmm.... I don't know if Vince is going to share your vision of Season 3 since what you describe sounds incredibly like the 1960's TV show "The Odd Couple" . In that show 2 guys get kicked out of their homes by their wives. Even though the 2 guys are very different , 1 very bright and organized the other a total FU , they decide to live together. The show is all about how even though they argue all the time they both have a very deep bond for each other. So how does your vision for BrBa differ from this 1960's TV show formula ? Vince want's a show that is edgy and unique ... now Oscar killing Felix is edgy but I don't think them arguing each week is.

OK, how about THIS scenario?:

One day Walt and Jesse's bickering escalates into a knock-down, drag-out fight. They scream, they pant, they roll around on the floor, pummeling each other. Suddenly in the middle of all this violence, they look deep into each other's eyes and realize....they're in love! This sudden realization is better than all the drugs, all the money in the world!

They're not "The Odd Couple," after all. They are "Queer as Folk!"

P.S. I'm not serious here . I just got tired of the "Odd Couple" references. But maybe.....

Hi rockmama ... very cute. But come on ... what show did you think about when you read Brett's description of season 3 ? ;-)

I think Brett's scenario may have been a little tongue in cheek, too! I mean...Jesse hiding whenever Hank drops by? That WOULD be "Odd Couple" material!

Come on, "Breaking Bad" will never turn into "The Odd Couple," even if Season 3 does have Walt and Jesse moving in together. The writers and actors are just too talented. You just know that WHATEVER happens, it's going to be thought-provoking and true to the characters.

lol , lol ... you have a little more faith in BrBa writers then I do. They've set the bar pretty high ! Though I must admit Bryan has become one of my favorite actors to watch. I'm interested to what projects takes on after BrBa... as well as how he's going to pull of Jesse's demise ;-).

Noooo! Save Jesse Pinkman! lol
You made such a convincing case in this topic for Walt killing him off, you almost had me believing it was inevitable. But I don't think it necessarily has to go that way. We shall see.
At any rate, you've got us thinking, Nimrod313. And there aren't that many TV shows that provide the fuel for such interesting discussions.

Actually, Brett, I like all of your suggestions, except for the part about Walt quitting his teaching job. Because I’ve always liked the idea of him continuing to teach high school while doing his drug deals at the same time. I think that’s a core aspect of the show’s premise that highlights the extreme dichotomy between Walt’s old life and his new Heidelberg persona. Basically, if he stopped being a teacher then he would just be a drug dealer, and thus (potentially) not quite as interesting. Especially if he’s not going to be around his family as much in the next season, then there won’t be anything left to keep that aspect of the show alive, assuming that the old Walt is to continue existing at all.

Plus there’s Carmen, that pretty little principal who was very, um…adamant…about making herself available to Walt for “confidential” meetings, and we have yet to see anything come of that. But I think we will.

As for Walt and Jesse becoming roommates, I think that’s pretty much inevitable given their situation. Not only does it make sense, but it would also be hilarious. And after the direness of season two, I’m ready to see as much of the comedy brought back to the show as possible, given the circumstances that will allow for it.

As for "Odd Couple" references, well, that's just a given. Bryan Cranston even brought up the comparison himself and Aaron Paul has also stated his approval of the scenario. So there's just no way around that at this point, but I don't see why that's a bad thing. Seems to me like it's been working great so far, and I trust them, as well as Vince and the rest of the crew, to do what's right for the show from here on out.

Oh, and as for the OP, I really do not see that happening at this point, unless something really drastic happens. Like Aaron Paul quitting the show, which would likely kill the show. So if we are ever going to see Jesse die, one way or another, it probably won't be until the series finale. And if Walt was to do the killing then I think the only way that would happen is if it was a mercy killing of some sort.

OK Rockmama , both Brett and stormsiren would be happy to see BrBa become OdCo . If you had to decide between seeing Walt and Jesse be roomies or Jessie 6 feet undo which would you prefer ? ... I think you know which my vote would be for ;-)

So far, Vince hasn't written off all of Walt's redeeming human qualities as of yet, thank goodness. Yet, I fear, with Season 3, Vince might forgo any rhyme or reason why Walt spirals downward. The audience, for the most part, has understood the reason WHY Walt has made some pretty nasty decisions when he is backed into a corner. Making Walt a total monster without soul or gaining sympathy from the audience and going all bad Walt, is the turning point of losing Walt to a "no return" evil man. Now Walt is all bad, and to what degree how bad will bad get??? Lets see, Vince can turn Walt into a gamer with no remorse, no sin, no concsious, and kick someone's head in 20 times, or drive his SUV over a body 40 times and see if the body comes back to life to get more abuse. As Walt becomes more intent of being the Heisenberg, the violence will increase. I find this disturbing that Vince would trash this character for some quick action and up the ratings to continue the series to another season.

I still want to see Walt testing his good vs bad inner conflict before he kills a characterization in the series, because then I can hope Walt will always keep a little good and humanness in his soul for redemption when he needs it. Walt so far, in the episodes, ALWAYS HAD A LITTLE HESITATION before his actions of inflicting pain and taking a life...that hestitation of "right vs wrong" conscious kicking in. Without any hestitation, we might get a sense he has lost his soul and conciousness of his actions. When Walt becomes so bad beyond a turning point of being good, we know "Crime does not pay" and we lose Walt to a darker Dr. Death.

OR...what if Jessie becomes the good guy, turning his life around, and has to eliminate no good, bad Walt in the end...that is a twist of fate that makes some sense. Good and bad roles are reversed and Jessie comes out as the good guy.

I couldn't accept Vince having Walt kill Jessie, but I could see the possibility of Gus having Jessie killed because Gus would feel Jessie would jeopardize his cartel and dealings with Walt. That makes more sense because Gus told Walt, Jessie is a druggie and you can't trust a druggie.

LOL, Nimrod, I think you may be jumping the gun here just a tad.

As far as I know, neither of the guys in the actual "The Odd Couple" show ever cooked meth, killed anyone, or turned two guys into raspberry slush and then flushed them down the toilet, among other things as sordid.

The point being, I think it's pretty safe to say that while BB may share some very *basic* quality that was present in that show, we are still dealing with two entirely different animals.

And I really don't think that anyone wants for that to change, as if that would even be possible at this point, which it's not ;)

Anyway, the whole "odd couple" dynamic, or whatever you want to call it, is as old as time itself. It's not like it was invented with that one show or copyrighted by its creators. Lots of other works throughout history have incorporated that idea, because it works well to provide memorable entertainment.

Take House, for example, in which the relationship of House and Wilson is often described as "odd couple", and is obviously much more akin to the relationship of Oscar and Felix than is that of Walt and Jesse, by tenfold at least. And yet I don't think I've ever seen a fan of House complain about that aspect of the show, have you?

So, no offense, but from my perspective, it seems kind of like you're trying to insinuate that since Lassie had a dog in it, any other show that has a dog in it is just a ripoff of Lassie.

Jessie would not ever be killed off the show.

Like him or hate him, he is there to stay to the end.

Walt and Jessie are untouchables.

There is little to no chance that Hank would be killed off either.

Everyone else is anyone's game.

Skinny Pete is the most likely to die this next season, followed by Ted and Hank's partner at the DEA.

I've been thinking and thinking and thinking, and may have come up with a nugget of truth. Or at least a slightly different way of looking at things:

I felt the key scene this past season was at the end of the episode where the doctor tells Walt his tumor has shrunk and his odds of survival have greatly improved. One would think Walt would be happy about that, but the first thing he does is go into the men's room and smash his hand against the paper towel holder on the wall. I think at this point he realizes - "I no longer have a valid excuse for running my drug business. But I still want to. It makes me feel powerful and successful. So...what now?"

The 2 sides of his personality are A. the basically good guy who's done what he felt he had to for his family, but felt bad about some of the consequences it has caused and B. the guy who has derived a certain amount of pride from the bad things he's done.

I think Season 3 will be the battle between those two personalities. The moral quandries are going to hit closer and closer to home. And if it ever happens that Walt becomes totally Heisenberg, Walt may have to kill not Jesse, but himself.

Ug and oye vey you dolts!!! Don't you remember that it was Jesse who remembered Walt as his teacher first? Walt did not remember him. Don't you all remember Jesse's comic rendering of Mr. WHITE sitting on the toilet and blasting himself off on said toilet? Jesse hated Walt bigtime! Don't you remember Jesse saying Mr. White is that you? I know you. Jesse hated him in high school. Well I just came up on a chemical reaction, original ice, rum and coke, sucked down to the ice, then go downstairs to refresh insulated cup with ice and coke left, pour some great rum to hit said ice, add more ice from the fridge icemaker, than hit with more coke from the plastic bottle creates frozen sluchie rum and coke sipping stuff! Kinda like how a Black Cow works with root beer on ice cream. Yummy. Anyway to get back to Walt as a beloved teacher. He's not. Granted Walt jr. love's him. Alway's will. Haven't you all noticed that Walt's classes are always being audited by the school principal? If Walt was truely reaching out to his students, he wouldn't be checked upon so much. Walt, doesn't know how to relate to a class of little people. I don't care what you all say, but when I was 14 I was still a baby. AKA little one. I luckily had some good teachers, I also had some really bad teachers who were putting their shit on me. If I didn't do what they wanted me to do, I was wrecking their average on success for them.
And if I didn't do what he wanted me to do, he would take it out on my little sister and prevent her from advancing. This was my choir teacher. He also offered me a tissue to cry in! I said nothing to him, then walked out of his office. He was expecting that I'd be his star performer. I perhaps should have gone back, but I didn't know that at the time. Also he'd threatned my family. It turns out later that he had lots of civil suits for wreaking kids singing voices.
Well, to get back on Walts teaching. Walt is not a very good teacher. We've not been presented with one student who's a chem prodigy in all the years that Walts been teaching chem. Certainly Walt could have picked out at least one to latch onto?
Tweeds

I think it's also fair to point out that, despite all his shortcomings, Jesse has actually managed to do a lot for Walt, against all odds, although Walt hardly ever admits to it. But Walt would never have been able to get to where he is in the business without Jesse's support, and he knows that. Otherwise he never would have bothered him in the first place.

There is much evidence to contradict the allegations made in the OP, which seems to suggest that Walt is both perfectly capable and willing to continue cooking and selling all the meth on his own.

Let's look at some facts:

For one thing, Walt has made it very clear that he doesn't like dealing with the street part of the business at all, and prefers to remain as a silent partner as much as possible. He dislikes drug users in general as well as other pushers, and he doesn't want his face becoming too recognizable on the scene for obvious reasons.

Walt chose Jesse in the beginning because he knew that he would be able to control him enough to get what he wanted. Anyone else would have either ditched him or killed him a long time ago, especially after learning (and stealing) his recipe.

And let's not forget that it was Walt who originally blackmailed Jesse into partnering with him, by threatening to turn him into the DEA. Nonetheless, Jesse still perceives Walt as his teacher, an authority figure, hence his persistence in calling him "Mr. White", which is a sign of respect.

And there's the fact that Walt has made several mistakes that have gotten both himself and Jesse in a lot of trouble, after Jesse had warned him against it. But Jesse went along with his plans anyway, despite his better judgment, because of his desire to prove himself as a worthy partner, only to get beat up, put down, screwed over, and reamed out for it in the end.

Then there's the fact that Walt has apparently come to see Jesse as more than just a partner or a minion, and now considers him as like a son or a nephew, a family member that he feels responsible for protecting.

Plus he feels guilty as hell for killing Jane and causing Jesse to suffer even more because of him.

So, as far as I can tell, there is more than enough reason already at this point to justify Walt's continued need/desire to associate with Jesse, and I would actually consider Walt to be very lucky if Jesse continues to go along with his demands.

Dear stormsiren,
You are good! You must have a degree of some sort.
Well, to think that Jesse is a person with brainiac capabilities. Its a positive in the school continuim!!
I only wish that this forum continue's.
I don't know, are younger peeps than us reading this forum? I know that police people are, I know that senetors and presidents are. How do I know this? Its a just cause thing.
Tweeds

Heh, uh, thanks, but no, I don't have any degree. I haven't been to any college as of yet, only have graduated high school and then served 4 years in the USMC.

I just tend to get kind of fixated on stuff sometimes :P

In response to silent’s July 8, 2009 2:15 pm posting
Hi Silent, I don’t mean to be contrary ( heh , heh) but I would almost guarantee that either Walt , Jesse or Hank will be dead, or severely out of commission, by the end of season 3. In fact if you want to make a friendly wager for a set of BrBa DVD’s I will certainly take you up on it ! ;-)

Why do I think that ? … I can tell you in two words, False Protagonist !!!

Think about all those great Films where before the end of the movie a primary character is killed , doesn’t it have a dramatic impact on the show ? ; Alfred Hitchcock in Psycho had the lead female actress killed , Coen brothers in No Country of Old Men has Llewllyn Moss as the central character until he’s killed off-screen, in the film Smokin Aces Ben Affleck’s has a voice over narration that introduces many of the other characters before he is unexpectedly shot, John Travolta in Pulp Fiction etc etc etc. These were all great movies, made better I think , by the use of the False Protagonist. That twist in the plot was just so unexpected. Now why do I think Vince will use this dramatic device :
(1) Because it works so well !
(2) He loves throwing the viewers the curve ball !
(3) He’s said the show is about the journey into the depths … this certainly show’s that he meant it !

So what do you think silent … want to take me up on a friendly wager ??

Cheers Nimrod1313

Source : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_protagonist

In response to Linda’s July 8, 2009 1:56 am posting
Hi Linda, Yea Gus getting rid of Jesse makes a lot of sense to me as well. But let me add a little twist…OK ? Walter has knowledge of the actions Gus has taken and yet he continues business with Gus. Of course when Walter realizes what Gus has done he shed’s the obligatory single tear … then proceeds with business. What do you think?

Careful silent, Nimrod wants a DVD set badly!!! LOL

Yes...Nimrod, as much as I hate to admit to your theory of Gus eliminating Jessie, Walt finds out and keeps a "poker face" when Gus tells him Jessie had to be eliminated. .....sounds like something Vince would pull on his viewers and then wait and watch to see if the audience still feels sympathic towards Walt. Yes,.....the more I think about this, the more I tend to agree with you on Walt reallly turning into the devils deciple in Season 3. Okay, I buy that, but I also hope Vince is SMART to keep Jessie around too...Jessie might appear to be a goof at times, but I still think he has street smarts we haven't seen yet.

For being a punk, Jessie has come around to winning the sympathy of many fans, including myself. I am not sure if it's Arron Paul's good acting that has changed my opinion of Jessie, the dropout druggie, or it's Jessie's metamorphosis during the series. Under that punky exterior, Jessie has a good heart...remember Spooge's little boy and how Jessie's character felt pity for him and telling the mother, give that kid a bath, give him a good meal...etc. Under different circumstances and environment, I believe Jessie might have lived differently, but with Walt going the bad road, either Jessie goes back to the drug world or he leaves Walt, OR Vince will have someone eliminate Jessie.

Tweeds, have you recently taken a survey of who watches Breaking Bad??? LOL

In response to Linda’s July 8, 2009 1:44 am posting
In comparing Walter and Jesse , since the beginning of their partnership , hasn’t Jesse always been the good guy ? I mean look at their actions …

Walt’s has killed several people and by is own admission sleeps very well at night
Jesse went to the tweeker’s house and was totally messed up for day’s after seeing the guy killed by his wife. In fact Jesse has not killed anyone in two seasons how many has Walt killed ?

Walt has a few ounces ripped off and he gives Jesse a gun and tell’s him to take care of it.
Jesse get’s to the tweeker house and is more concerned with the little boy living there than getting his money back

Walt lies to his wife constantly
Jesse tells the truth to Jane

Walt practically rapes Skyler up against the kitchen cupboard
Jesse waits for Jane to make the first physical advancements

Walt angers easily with Walt Jr.
Jesse takes the dive for his brother’s dope

Walt thinks for a second when Saul suggests Badgers demise … Jesse quickly and emphatically says “No Way”

In the two seasons I can only think of twice where Jesse got tough (1) physically fighting Walter in the trailer outside Walt’s house (2) shooting Tuco in the stomach . But both times Jesse had to be provoked and provoked hard !.

So hasn’t Jesse , though a misguided soul , always been the better guy ?

In response to stormsiren’s July 8, 2009 12:27 posting
Hi stormsiren , no offense taken lol I enjoy the retort . Yea , I might have laid the “Odd Couple” analogy on a little to thick BUT … let me try to explain . Obviously characters have to have other characters to play against. And usually this interaction between characters involves conflicts and resolutions of some type. But when I use the “Odd Couple” label I’m thinking about shows that that’s all it’s about. The audience is supposed to be kept entertained week after week by the two characters squabbles, without anything else evolving. With Felix and Oscar I’d bet you’d be hard pressed to tell if an episode was from season 1 or season 2 ! Correct ? Can remember one episode of OC in which the characters were seen differently the next week ? While in the good shows I don’t think it’s all about the bickering between the two main characters. It’s about the moving forward of the plot and the development/evolution of the characters. For example with breaking bad I bet you CAN tell if an episode was from season 1 or season 2! Correct? Can remember one episode of BrBa in which the characters weren’t seen differently the next week ?

So , when I talk about “Odd Couple” show’s I think about the main characters banging heads every week to amuse us like dizzy buffoons while hoping we don’t notice nothing has really changed or happened. While with good shows that conflict is just a vehicle to show the characters change before our eyes. Our understanding of Wilson and House has changed because of their conflicts just as the plot of BrBa is also moved along.

So in season 3 could Walt and Jesse become a meth toting Odd Couple yep … would that disappoint me ? yep ! I’d rather see Jesse shot then have him become just another half of a dizzy buffoon circus act.

What do you think ?

Cheers Nimrod1313

Jessie is a confused, mixed up kid, basically. His parents have worked with his drug habit, but gave up on him. As like many kids his age, its a age of confusion of where do they fit in today's society if they don't tow the line???? Jessie is a smart kid but just an underachiever by not applying himself. Jessie seems to relate to Walt far better than his biological father and will do as Walt instructs him to do. This is the sad part, because Jessie has found somewhat a father figure with Walt, and although they banter back and forth with each other, the relationship has been a loyal one, at least on Jessie's part. As Season 3 rolls around, that loyality to Walt is definitely going to be tested.

Hi Lindas

I’d be happy to buy silent and DVD …. If I’m proven wrong! I hope he takes me up on the bet … it would be verrrry nice for me to get such a gift LOL ; -).

Yes I agree with you about Jesse’s personality , he IS such a sweet guy… chuckle , chuckle …. Kind’ve the reason I thought Vince’s twisted mind would like to off him in the first place ;-). You know what they say … no good deed goes unpunished.

Cheers
Nimrod1313

Nimrod...your retort to Stormsiren is a good one, but I hardly think the "Odd Couple" series of some thirty years ago is a appropriate comparsion...it's comparing apples with oranges. Breaking Bad has a much different tone to it vs the silly slapstick type of humor of the "Odd Couple". If you want to have a better comparsion, lets start comparing a similiar series, "Weeds" to "Breaking Bad". These are two similar series bascially in the same catagory of each other. We can compare which writing skills are superior, "Breaking Bad" or "Weeds".

If I may make another analogy, about "Weeds" vs. "Breaking Bad" that these two series might be in competition with each other for Emmys too..so maybe we should be analyzing which series will most likely be awarded Emmys for similar content.

In response to stormsiren July 8, 2009 8:22 pm posting

stormsiren Jesse has actually managed to do a lot for Walt …Walt would never have been able to get to where he is in the business without Jesse's
Response Every living creature can say that. We all have mentors and help along the way. But part of the growing process is to leave those helpers behind. My first grade teacher , My first Girlfriend , My first best friend, My mother … all taught me things that advanced and enriched my life… but that doesn’t mean they still have an active role in my life. Jesse has served his purpose , he got Walt to this point in his drug career. Now I think Gus and Saul will be better mentors in Walt’s career goals.

stormsiren contradict … allegations Walt is both perfectly capable and willing to continue cooking and selling all the meth on his own.
Response Walt doesn’t distribute anymore , but neither does Jesse … that’s what Gus is for.

stormsiren he doesn't like dealing with the street part … and he doesn't want his face becoming too recognizable
Response How many times has Jesse bumbling exposed Walter ? Both in season 1 and season 2 Jesse has brought drug dealers to Walt’s door step ( figuratively in season 1 , literally in season 2). Walter had to meet Jesse minions for a pickup when Jesse was to bummed over the tweekers death, Jesse exposed Walt’s secrets to Jane, Jesse calls and shows up at Walt’s house etc. etc. This type of exposure is probably less likely to happen with a man that has been in the business 20 years and never been caught i.e. Gus.

stormsiren Walt chose Jesse in the beginning because he knew that he would be able to control him
Response Never trust a junkie ! Besides why does he need to control anyone anymore ? He’s got a good professional distributor and a good lawyer. All he need’s to do is cook it and give it to Gus. He needed a minion when he started … maybe not so much anymore.

stormsiren Walt who originally blackmailed Jesse into partnering with him
Response Yea most relationships that start with blackmail are sure to last ! To me that’s just another way of saying I’ll use you until I find something better.

stormsiren Walt has made several mistakes …Jesse went along with his plans anyway
Response Another reason why Walt should move on. You learn by being around people that know more than yourself . Do you think Saul or Gus are going to let Walter make stupid mistakes ? Nope .. will Jesse ? Yep !

stormsiren Walt has apparently come to see Jesse as more than just a partner … considers him as like a son
Response Walt has a rescue complex that tends to turn bitter when he’s not needed in that capacity. Examples: Hank up a chipper Walter’s bitter , Hank depressed then Walt’s there giving the big speeches. Walt Jr. is disabled , Walt’s there cheering him on. Walt Jr. admires Hank, or takes driving lesson with Lewis or want’s to be called Flynn … Boy is Walt pissed. In other words once Jesse starts to heal then Walt will start to distance.

stormsiren he feels guilty as hell for killing Jane
Response One single tear, go home get sleep , wake up , play with baby , wait for Jesse’s call … how does this show Walt feels guilty as hell ??

stormsiren as far as I can tell, there is more than enough reason already at this point to justify Walt's continued need/desire to associate with Jesse
Response The only reason I can see at all is a Father/Son bond … maybe. But for Walt’s advancement as a Drug Lord ? … Jesse is bad for business.

P.S. Hey Stormsiren. It’s hard to tell tone in posts so please know that I actually do think you make a lot of interesting observations …. In fact if I didn’t feel that way I would have put so much effort into this posting…

Cheers
Nimrod1313

In response to Linda July 9, 2009 12:42 pm posting
Hi Linda… will the Weeds/BrBa debate get us any closer to answering the question about Jesse being killed … lol lol or are you just trying to distract me from my initial quest for the answer ;-)

Bye-The-Way … I watched about 15 minutes of Weeds once and found that to be quite enough to satisfy my curiosity. ;-)

How come nobody wants to talk about my theory- posted hours ago- about the most important scene this season being Walter slamming his fist against the paper towel holder after learning he no longer has an excuse for running his meth business?

(OK, this has probably all been discussed already. I'm a relative newbie to this board. But bear with me. The important line is the one in all caps. in my next paragraph).

Up until that episode, Walt could justify any rotten thing he did by telling himself he has cancer, he has to provide for his family, etc., etc., etc. Now he learns he may actually survive. The only problem is: Part of him seems to just plain LIKE doing rotten stuff. I don't think he has solved that conflict yet. I DON'T THINK HE'S EVEN FACED IT!

AndI I think everything that happened this season after that scene ...and everything that happens NEXT season... has had to do or will have to do with Walt finally having to actually face that conflict going on inside his head, heart and soul. So it's not really the actions he may take - killing Jesse, making more meth, buying Girl Scout cookies, whatever - that interest me. It's the process of what's going on inside him that's so fascinating. This story could go anywhere!

Actually Rockmama, your theory of Walt punching the paper towel holder hasn't really been focused on that much in the postings. Most of the postings seem to argue the point, more violence or more drama. I concur with you about what is going on in Walt's head. Clearly, Walt has some mental health issues to deal with in his life and that is why I question his childhood and his so called "non-existent" relationship with his mother. What son doesn't call his mother and tell her he has terminal cancer???? So it appears so far in the series, his relationship with his mother is bascially nil. The fact when Holly was born, no phone call to congratulate them on the birth of a grandchild...now that is strange. So I also want to know what runs in Walt's head besides "anger issues" with life in general.

I find it odd, Nimrod that two series, "Weeds" and "Breaking Bad", so similar ,are playing the approxiamately in the same time period. Could this be an indicator of what the general consensus wants to see on the screen?.... a series about the slimy drug world an average citizen doesn't see??

Actually, now that I think about it, "Weeds", "Breaking Bad" and "Hung" have a general theme of average, every day citizens backed into a corner, needing large amounts of money to bale their lives out of financial ruin and trying to provide for their families and making outlandish out-of-control, deviant decisions to attain the money. So is this a new dilemma for humans in today's society and are all three series trying to make some sort of statement of the new status quo??

Hello rockmama

Yes I thought that was a very interesting scene as well . A scene I don't think I got a handle on until Walt did his little pep talk to the ultra-depressed Hank. In that talk Walter described how he had been scared his entire life , until he was diagnosed with cancer ... and now he sleeps very well. To me it would appear that Walt had seen cancer giving him a freedom from fear. What's that line in the song ..."freedom's just another word for nothing left to loose". I guess that's what Walt felt , freedom because he had nothing to loose... at least for himself. Though I think the cancer also gave him a sense of urgency to provide for his family . Since Walt is very driven to rescue/provide it must have been a real rush to potentially provide his family in perpetuity while not fearing anything for himself ! Then when the cancer excuse was disappearing Walt must have felt many bad feelings rushing back ; fear he would be caught if he continued , fear for family and rationalizations disappearing for a very lucrative exciting life. He must have felt hatred for himself having to acknowledge he's only brave when there's no consequences and that he want's to be a criminal even when his excuses are gone.

So I ask myself if this relates to the main line of discussion in this topic/thread. I think it might in that it's another instance that show's how compulsively he's driven to be a drug dealer. How even he must do it when his good sense tells him not too. One could ask if he will let anything stand in his way from profits and being a great drug dealer... even if that "anything" is jesse. Walt has not allowed his love of family stop him from cooking , if he sees Jesse as hindering his progress will he let that bond get in his way ?

Bye-The-Way ... What's going on inside Walt is what interests me as well. In fact that's why I started this thread. As a way to investigate how twisted a path this man has and is traveling.

Cheers
Nimrod

Hi Lindas
As is said before, I don't watch Weeds nor do I watch "Hung". But I do watch "House", "Dextor" and "Breaking Bad". For me I think what the show's are about is the anti-hero. Each show's main character is ... well... bad men ! Why do we watch these types of shows ? Well one thing might be that we got tired of decades of shows being about the good guys with no faults. We see faults in ourselves and all around us and maybe these anti-hero shows give us an outlet for this side of us. It also could be the excellent scripts of these shows. After all the writing has to be dawn good for the viewer to be sympathetic about obnoxious hooker using drug addicted doctors, serial killers and meth dealers !

But let's remember it is the excellent writing that is making these characters sympathetic . If you make an objective list of Walt's actions in the last 2 seasons you can see he's a pretty bad guy already . Hence the reason I started this thread, inviting people to discuss how bad Walt might get !

So is there anyone yet, besides me , that thinks it possible that Walt could evolve into someone who might be able to kill Jesse , given the right circumstances ... anyone?...anyone?... bueller?

Hi Lindas In my last post to you I was talking about all the anti-hero shows we seem to enjoy these days i.e. Dexter , House, Br Ba . And I had realized I forgot to include Six Feet Under in that list for it certainly had characters with fatal faults.

Then I realized another similarity all these shows had in common... Dexter, House and Six Feet Under all had False Protagonist . Each show had central characters that were killed. In season 2 Dexter had his antagonist blown up . Six Feet Under at the very first episode made the audience believe the father was going to be the central character , then quickly killed him. House didn't kill his assistants but he did fire them and hire new ones.

Hmmm I wonder if Br Ba will do the same ???

Nimrod, I see what you’re saying, and that is a good point, I will give you that. But obviously BB has a lot more going for it than The Odd Couple ever did. And I’m pretty sure that everyone who calls themself a fan of this show can see that from a million miles away. So I think my point still stands that you don’t need to worry about BB ever turning into TOC in a literal sense. Believe me, no one wants to see that happen, lol. That would suck.

TOC (The Odd Couple) was just a sitcom after all. So there weren’t any serious story arcs or major subplots in it, and its humor was much lighter in tone and “family friendly”; i.e. it was overly silly, on purpose. Not to mention it was made in the ‘70’s.

BB is a modern primetime “dramedy” that is much more akin to the likes of House and The Shield. And like House, the “odd couple” aspect that BB has is just a fraction of the overall content that it has to offer.

Anyway, I think we can both agree to agree on this particular issue :)

To answer your question, though, I think the best course to take is the middle ground, to keep a healthy balance of dark humor and drama going on, as it has already managed to do so well thus far. I don’t see the need to completely turn everything upside down or chop the show in half in order to keep it real and interesting, at least not at this point. It’s like you’re suggesting that it has to be one way or the other, that either Jesse has to get killed right now or the show will suffer irreparably from being dumbed down or something. But I think the exact opposite is true, personally.

I can’t help but find it a little funny that you would complain about Jesse and Walt “becoming a meth-toting odd couple” when that’s already exactly what they are and have been ever since the pilot. And you do like the show, correct?

The way I see it, if Jesse was killed any time soon, and especially if Walt was the killer, that would change everything, and probably not for the best. Of course, it all depends on the situation and how compelling Vince is able to make it. And I think he’s been doing an excellent job so far, because I actually don’t have any real complaints right now about anything that has happened.

But I think they have already pushed the envelope quite a bit with the level of Walt’s involvement in Jane’s death. Apparently that has a lot of fans, or former fans I should say, of Walt pretty upset with him as it is.

I still like Walt myself and want him to succeed anyway, but if he were to kill Jesse for some frivolous reason like because he just doesn’t like him, or wants to keep all the money for himself, or sees him as a “liability” as you suggested, I really don’t think that I would be able to stomach him any longer after that. But then I am a huge fan of Jesse and actually like him better than Walt.

However, like I said before, I can see Jesse dying eventually by the end of the series, or close to it, and I could see Walt killing him out of mercy, like if he was about to die anyway and was really suffering, or something really crazy like that. But with the level of feelings that Walt has shown that he has for him now, it wouldn’t make any sense at all for him to just snuff him out for the sake of convenience is what I’m saying. Unless, of course, Walt’s character was to take a complete nosedive into the toilet, which is not something that I want to see happen. Do you?

As for someone else killing Jesse (against Walt’s will), like Gus or Saul, that is entirely possible and it would make sense. Jesse has already had so many near-death experiences on this show that, if he was a cat, I would estimate that he has only about maybe 2 lives left, and that’s assuming he hadn’t already lost some before Walt’s “greedy old ass” came along. He’s really not had a very good time at life and he’s not going to be able to keep cheating death if things continue going as they have been, so you may very well get your wish, Nimrod. But would that really be a good thing for the show, in the long run I mean? No, I don’t think so. Because as much as I like Walt and enjoy watching Bryan Cranston’s performance, I am not sure if he would be entertaining enough on his own for me to continue watching the show as religiously as I have been.

Nimrod,

{{We all have mentors and help along the way. But part of the growing process is to leave those helpers behind.}}

Ok, but…maybe I’m taking you the wrong way here, but would you ditch someone who had helped you out, when they needed your help in return, just because you no longer considered them as useful? Personally, I’m no saint, but I could never do that. As for Walt, though, perhaps he can and will do just that, in the end. But I kind of hope not because that would be too sad IMO.

{{Now I think Gus and Saul will be better mentors in Walt’s career goals… Walt doesn’t distribute anymore , but neither does Jesse … that’s what Gus is for.}}

First of all, I think you might be putting just a bit too much faith in Gus and Saul right now. Because, from what I can tell so far, I don’t think that either of them would back Walt up in a pinch if they had to really stick their necks out for it, while Jesse has done that time and again. In fact, I think that Walt should really be watching his back around those two. For right now at least, Jesse is the only one that Walt can turn his back to without having to worry about getting stabbed in it, and who will generally do what he wants even if he doesn’t agree with it. Second, Walt’s “career goals” may not be the only thing that he cares about in life.

{{How many times has Jesse bumbling exposed Walter ?}}

Several times. I agree that Jesse is not the perfect partner for Walt, not by a long shot. But then, there really is no such thing. Besides, Walt has made more than his share of the mistakes, and I think he is ultimately the most responsible for all of them too.

{{Both in season 1 and season 2 Jesse has brought drug dealers to Walt’s door step ( figuratively in season 1 , literally in season 2).}}

But Walt is a drug dealer now, and so is Jesse. Walt chose to start working with drug dealers because he wants to be one too. He made that choice for himself, and now he has to deal with it, if he wants to make any real money in the business. That’s just how it goes.

When Jesse brought Emilio and Krazy-8 out to their cook site in the pilot, he was under duress to make their first sale. And everything was fine until they flipped out when Emilio recognized Walt from the DEA bust and assumed that he was an undercover agent. You think that was all Jesse’s fault?

As for Tuco, I blame that whole situation on Walt entirely. Here’s why: First he pressured Jesse to try making a deal with him after Jesse told him it was a bad idea, which resulted in Jesse getting put in the hospital. Then Walt chose to deal with Tuco anyway, without consulting Jesse, and wound up making an ass of himself because he had no idea how to obtain enough pseudoephedrine to make his promised delivery of two pounds of meth. So he came up short, way short, and thus revealed his ignorance to Tuco, who subsequently lost a lot of the respect that Walt had managed to gain from him earlier. Walt was also the one who chose to make the deals way out in a junkyard of all places, even though he knew that Tuco had violent tendencies, an idea that Jesse and even Tuco himself thought was silly. Then Tuco beat one of his own guys to death right in front of them just because he could, proving Jesse right again. Then Tuco began stalking them and Walt ignored Jesse’s recommendation to get himself a gun so that they would both have one to defend themselves. Instead, he cooked some poison that takes like two or three days to kick in and called it good even though couldn’t think of a reliable delivery method. Then he took Jesse’s gun away from him and didn’t bother to keep it on him even after he saw Tuco’s vehicle parked right down the street from his own house. And Jesse only drove Tuco to Walt’s house because Tuco had a gun to his head. What would you have done? Besides, it’s not like Tuco didn’t already know where he lived anyway; he had already found that out on his own.

{{Walter had to meet Jesse minions for a pickup when Jesse was to bummed over the tweekers death…}}

So? Walt’s supposed to do all of the cooking but he still makes Jesse a) gather all of the supplies, b) take care of the RV and the rest of the equipment, and c) go out in the desert and cook with him anyway, whether he wants to or not. He even made Jesse let him use the basement of his aunt’s house as the meth lab when the RV broke down, which is what got Jesse kicked out on the street by his parents. And then Walt is always butting in and telling Jesse how to do his job when he really has no idea what he’s talking about half the time. So Walt had to be subjected to meeting the other guys in the crew one time. Boo hoo. Actually, he didn’t really have to, he chose to do it because maybe, just maybe, he actually felt bad for Jesse, for once.

Speaking of Spooge, that was yet another debacle that Walt got Jesse into by ordering him to “handle it”, after Jesse had insisted that they should chalk up the theft to “breakage” and let it go since they were still making bank. And Jesse was damn lucky to have survived that encounter, no thanks to Walt, who then barged into his house and snatched his bong away from him after Jesse had made it clear that he didn’t even want to talk to him.

You see, Walt is a very smart guy, but he has very little common sense, and is very pushy. Jesse is not very smart, but he does have more common sense, and is actually more reasonable. And a huge part of their problem is that Walt is never happy to just let well enough alone. He is very greedy, for both money and power, while Jesse is content to stay cautious and just take what they can get without causing turmoil. Actually, I’ve begun to think it’s the turmoil that Walt craves the most out of the whole deal.

{{Jesse exposed Walt’s secrets to Jane…}}

Yes, he did, and that was pretty dumb. He was also dumb for letting her do what she did instead of taking control of the situation, since it was really none of her business. I thought that was a really weak move on Jesse’s part, no doubt. So I’m not saying that he’s perfect. But neither is Walt. I think that Walt is also pretty dumb for getting himself into this whole mess to begin with, and then even more so for staying with a woman that he knows can’t be trusted with any of his secrets while trying to keep his marriage afloat on a sea of lies. At least Jesse doesn’t try to lead a double life, he just is who he is, and if he’s going to share his life with a woman, then he wants to be up front with her about everything instead of keeping everything behind her back like Walt does with Skyler.

{{Jesse calls and shows up at Walt’s house…}}

Oh, man, that’s another thing. What’s the deal with that? Let’s see… Walt always gets all pissy whenever Jesse calls him, no matter how adequate the precautions are that he takes to conceal his identify on the phone, and Walt goes ballistic whenever Jesse comes within so much as 50 feet of his house or his school, no matter what the reason for it happens to be, whether it’s to give him money or get his help or anything. And yet, Walt doesn’t respect Jesse’s personal space at all. Ever notice that? He comes to his house whenever he wants, day or night, bangs on his door incessantly, tries to make the manager let him in when he won’t answer by pretending to be his father, then breaks right into his house by smashing the door in and pesters him in his own bed, in addition to harassing him on the phone on a regular basis, spamming him and leaving snotty messages like, “Where the hell are you?”, just because he didn’t pick up right away, and demands for him to “clear his social calendar” on a whim, all while he maintains his own personal life however he sees fit. Do you really think that is entirely fair? It seems pretty one-sided to me. For the most part, Jesse tries to keep his distance unless it’s a dire emergency, and Walt gives him hell for it anyway, and then also gives him hell when Jesse isn’t around when he needs him. IMO that is kind of messed up. And do you really think that anyone else in the business of meth would put up with half as much of Walt’s crap as Jesse has been doing? LOL, I don’t think so. I know I sure as hell wouldn’t. Would you?

{{This type of exposure is probably less likely to happen with a man that has been in the business 20 years and never been caught i.e. Gus.}}

Very true. But Gus is never going to take any orders from Walt. Like you said, he’s been in the business for 20 years and has never been caught, i.e. he is very “high level” and damn good at what he does, and so he is the one that’s in charge of his operation. Walt, on the other hand, is still quite a newb. Therefore, Walt is going to be the one taking orders from Gus, henceforth, for as long as Gus remains willing to continue the relationship, which will only be on his terms, a fact that Gus has already made very clear to Walt. That is the difference. And that’s all good for Walt’s financial situation and legal security, for now, but how long will that last? I think it’s too good too be true, for one thing. And how long do you think that Heisenberg will remain complacent in that kind of setup anyway? Something is bound to go wrong there eventually, and I think that it will happen sooner rather than later.

{{Yea most relationships that start with blackmail are sure to last ! To me that’s just another way of saying I’ll use you until I find something better.}}

Haha, good point. That is certainly the way it started out. But things have changed. These two guys have a lot if history with each other now, for one thing. And Walt’s threat of going to the DEA became moot pretty quick, so Jesse is free to walk any time. But he doesn’t. Why? The money is a sure motivation, but that’s not all there is to it. Because Jesse was willing to just keep selling dimebags on his own to make ends meet instead of getting locked in a trunk and beaten nearly to death in addition to getting profiled by the DEA, all thanks to Walt. Then Jesse made a promise to ensure that Walt’s family would get his share of the money no matter what happens to him, and I think that he really meant that, since he has shown a willingness to keep his word. Basically, I think at this point that Jesse genuinely wants to help Walt meet his goal for his family’s sake before he “checks out”, just because he’s cool like that. And I seriously doubt that Walt is ever going to find anyone else in the business that’s willing to make that level of commitment to his cause.

{{Another reason why Walt should move on. You learn by being around people that know more than yourself . Do you think Saul or Gus are going to let Walter make stupid mistakes ? Nope .. will Jesse ? Yep !}}

But you’re assuming that Walt wants to be a follower instead of the leader, to have someone else telling him what to do all the time instead of the other way around. That doesn’t sound like Heisenberg to me.

{{Walt has a rescue complex that tends to turn bitter when he’s not needed in that capacity.}}

Maybe, but then it kind of sounds like you’re assuming that Walt has no capacity whatsoever for having genuine concern for anyone. I really don’t think that’s the case, at least I certainly hope not.

{{One single tear, go home get sleep , wake up , play with baby , wait for Jesse’s call … how does this show Walt feels guilty as hell ??}}

Maybe it’s a matter of interpretation, but to me it looked like there was a lot more to it than that on Walt’s face and in his eyes and voice during those scenes. He seemed pretty distraught about the whole situation, instead of being happy that Jane was dead.

{{The only reason I can see at all is a Father/Son bond … maybe. But for Walt’s advancement as a Drug Lord ? … Jesse is bad for business.}}

Yes, you could be right about that. In fact, you probably are, in that respect. So the question will be, which does Walt want more? To be a good father, or a better drug dealer? That is a choice that he’s going to have to make sooner or later, and right now I think he’s still leaning towards the former. Albeit, that could change.

PS: Oh, hey, don’t sweat it. I just really like debating about stuff, and I get kind of serious about it, so I hope your not offended by my tone or anything. Maybe I get a little too carried away at times, but I don’t mean to be rude at all. I respect your opinions and you have given me some stuff to think about, so thanks for that. We are both fans of BB anyway, so it’s all good :)

As with many fans of "Breaking Bad", Season 3 should prove to be quite the turning point of this series of how the characterizations are going to fall.

Stormsiren has a good point of Season 3 showing how bad Walt can be demonized before our eyes.

Nimrod believes Walt will eventually kill Jessie out of pure greed without use for Jessie anymore. I hope Vince will find a different way of writing the script to outsmart all of us and tease the audience with little hints here and there of the POSSIBILITY Walt might eliminate Jessie, but doesn't carry through the deed.

I am in agreement with Stormsiren, that I am not sure the series would keep the interest if Walt was the solo "anti-hero". Jessie has been a good buffer and banter to Walt. Jessie is somewhat innocent and naive. Walt has all the wisdom and living experience of being an adult at his age along with being a teacher. Walt the teacher, shapes minds and molds their beliefs of how to live out in the world...he is a guidance for young adults. As much as Jessie faults Walt as "Mr. White", Jessie still has respect for Walt. Problem being, Walt, once a respectable Chem teacher, has turned to the evil ego and takes Jessie under his wing to shape Jessie into a vessel Walt will most definitely use to his(Walt's) advantage, only this time around,Walt is the devil incarnate.

Vince has played good vs evil between the two partners. Without this conflict between Jessie and Walt, I believe the series could fail in keeping interest. I will not assume what other's believe, but I wish to see what happens to Jessie down the road other than Walt eliminating him in a good shot of death. I respect Arron Paul's characterization of Jessie and the character, Jessie, deserves more.

SO.....Nimrod...have I answered your question to the above thread.??? In summary,no I don't wish to see Jessie killed by Walt. There is more to Walt and Jessie we haven't seen, because in my belief, the series seems to focus on these two partners in crime.

Gus will be the push for Walt to get rid of Jessie and this is the "new conflict" for Walt to make the decision and also the turning point of just how bad Vince will portray Walt.

Oops..Nimrod coined the phrase, "anti-hero", not Stormsiren.

Nimrod313, I still hope Walt doesn't kill Jesse, but, as I suggested several posts back, the idea of Walt PLANNING to kill Jesse, Jesse learning about it and having to go on the run might make for an excellent storyline.

The reason I'm bringing it up again is that I was just listening to an old song, Greg Allman's "Midnight Rider," and I could just picture scenes of Jesse's fugitive life with that song as
background music. I think it would be amazing.

Aaron Paul really is an awesome actor and I'd like to see him dig his teeth into a story like this.